Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 12:40 pm on 24 March 2020.
Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. Can I start by saying that I reported on this matter to the committee this morning? The committee has not, because of time constraints, been able to consider the details of the Bill. I have been able to look through the Bill, and I report, really, as Chair of the committee within that capacity.
Can I firstly say that, in taking emergency powers, there is still and always a need to maintain the goodwill and consent of the population at large? Emergency powers are, to some extent, dependent on that actually happening. And one of the concerns that I think I would have would be that, unless some of the issues relating to poverty that may arise are resolved, then those may well present a challenge to the implementation and the use of emergency powers—for example, those dependent on foodbanks, those who have difficulty accessing an income to live on. And, if we are totally frank about it, £94 statutory sick pay is not enough for a family to live on for a week. Those are issues on which, hopefully, there will be further statements from UK Government, but are things that really must be addressed.
Emergency powers, and the Government taking emergency powers, is an exception. Emergency powers are taken where there is a real threat to security or to life. I don't think any of us can doubt that, in the current circumstances, the circumstances are exceptional, and that there is a genuine threat, and that powers are necessary to be taken to protect life. That means suspension of some individual and collective rights, and the judicial and legal processes that normally exist to give those protections. So, it's within that context that these emergency powers are correctly being sought.
In terms of the exercise of powers, Parliament doesn't disappear, and this Parliament doesn't fade into the background, because it is Parliament that is transferring some of its powers for a period of time to the Executive to act. It is therefore very important that there are still some checks and balances. So, I very much welcome the concession that was made to a six-monthly renewal by Parliament of those particular powers. I note that the House of Lords committee that considered this Bill actually raised the same point, suggesting that a year would be appropriate. I know that the opposition to the Government put forward six months, and that has been accepted. And I think that six months is the appropriate period for the exercise of Parliament to consider whether the extension of those powers in six months' time is necessary.
Can I also say that I welcome clause 83, which requires the UK Government to give two-monthly reports on non-devolved areas? The reason I emphasise that particular point is because, in regard to the powers that have been given to Welsh Ministers, there is no similar reporting requirement, there is no similar legal requirement. So, what I would ask from Government is that there is an undertaking that the same reporting provisions that exist for UK Government will be accepted by Welsh Government, and that we will have those two-monthly reports on the exercise of those powers.
The other point I would raise that I think is important is also that, if Parliament is going to be considering the Bill as a whole and the exercise of those powers on a six-monthly basis, then there is a necessity for a review to take place within the Assembly, either by committee or within the Assembly as a committee in its own right, perhaps even on a five-monthly basis, so that when this matter is considered at UK Government level there are full reports of the operation of the Bill in respect of not just the way in which we have exercised the powers given to Welsh Government Ministers, but also the impact of those UK Government powers on Wales themselves. Our concern should be not just with the devolved areas, but also the impact of emergency powers on the people of Wales and the way that interacts.
So, I think within that context, those are the constitutional points that I think deal with some of the concerns that might exist with regard to any Government taking emergency powers. I think it is right that these powers are taken. It is not my intention to go though the detail of those; those have been outlined by the Minister. But just that there will be the maintenance of checks and balances, not only at UK Government level, but also by this Assembly: that we will review those, we will review them on a regular basis and that there will be regular reporting of the exercise of those exceptional powers given to Welsh Government Ministers.