Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 12:52 pm on 24 March 2020.
I'm pleased to rise to take part in this important debate. In his contribution to this debate, Paul Davies twice used the word 'draconian', and this is a draconian measure; we cannot pretend it's anything else. I’m sure that most of us in this Chamber will not be supporting it with a light heart. We would have loved to see our fellow citizens comply with what they were being asked and advised to do, but sadly, we know there is a minority—and I believe it’s a small minority of people—who were not prepared to take the very, very clear advice, and that means that powers must exist to protect the population from this unprecedented disease. We really don't know, as the Minister said earlier, what it’s going to do and how it’s going to affect us, and so Plaid Cymru will be, with quite a heavy heart in many ways, supporting this legislative consent motion.
In my contribution, Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to echo some of the concerns that have already been raised, particularly by Mick Antoniw. Not about whether the powers should exist, but how those powers might be used and how this place might be able to participate, because as the Minister has said, the taking of these powers—some of these powers—does not necessarily mean the use of them; it may not be necessary. But there are some areas, and I’m sure many other Members of the Senedd will have had representations, for example, from disabled people who are really concerned that if the requirements, hard-fought-for requirements, requirements that they’ve taken many years to campaign for around the right to support are removed, that they will lose care packages and that would make them vulnerable. I'd argue that it would actually make them vulnerable to ending up in the hospital system, which of course would be the last thing we would want. And the Minister will also be aware that there are concerns about the removal of some protections for mental health patients. I know that this Welsh Government will not likely use those powers, but I do understand why constituents have been writing to me and to many of us, and about the rights of disabled children to access education—all of those things—that those fears are real. I'd like to ask the Minister today, and I don’t know if he would be able to commit to this, that if the Welsh Government is reaching the point where it feels it must use some of those powers, that in addition to perhaps reporting as Mick Antoniw has suggested, whether it would be possible—we will be meeting in this place in one form or another—if it would be possible for the Minister to bring forward a statement to the mini Senedd or whatever we will be by that time, to explain why he is thinking of lightening the requirements on local government around social care, for example, so that we can raise constituents' concerns with him. And he can respond to those, and I'm sure respond to those in a way that would provide reassurance.
The Minister said in his statement that he absolutely understands—and I'm really pleased to hear him say this, and it doesn't surprise me at all—the right to balance respect for individuals' rights around what is necessary for the community as a whole. And in that respect, I draw his attention—he may have already seen it—to the statement released today by the Equality and Human Rights Commission that provides a very useful framework for one's thinking around how some of that balancing might be done in this absolutely unprecedented period.
I refer briefly to statutory sick pay. Of course, all of us will welcome the fact that this becomes available, but as Mick Antoniw has said, people cannot live on that. They certainly can't live on it for very long, and I think we are disappointed. I understand there were amendments that were raised but not discussed that would have provided, in this legislation, some protection for those sole workers, self-employed people and freelancers. I've heard what the Welsh Government have said—and I hope that they are right—that we will be getting a package from the UK Government, because that is, of course, the right level for that package to come. But if it doesn't come and it doesn't come quickly, I would urge Welsh Ministers to look at what they may be able to do in the short term. We've been doing some research ourselves, supported by experts in the field, around the possibility of a temporary basic income that would support those people, and if we find ourselves in a situation where the UK Government won't act, we would obviously be more than happy to share that and see if there's any feasibility.
I mean, there are other things that the legislation doesn't do, as I understand it, and the Minister will correct me if I'm wrong. It doesn't, for example, enable the Government, at any level, to step in and deal with bad employers. I am receiving messages as we are sitting here from people who are being pressurised to go into work in situations where I don't think anybody in this room would feel that their work was essential for the community. Siân Gwenllian raised earlier the issue about construction workers. I'm not a construction worker but my big brother is, and I know what construction sites are like. It is not possible, on a construction site, to be building buildings or repairing them and maintain proper social distancing. It just should not be done. Unless those people are building essential facilities or making essential repairs to perhaps the homes of older people who won't be safe to stay in their homes unless it's done, but construction workers—. I've had several e-mails this morning from people in my region saying, 'I don't want to be at work; I don't feel safe at work; I don't feel my work is essential, but my boss is telling me that unless I turn up, my work is gone.' We know that that sector is quite fragile, actually, that people's employment rights are often not very strong, and it's a disappointment to me that this legislation does not give Governments an opportunity to step in.
Again, the vast majority of employers are going to be being responsible, they're going to be supporting their staff, they're going to be encouraging their staff to stay at home. We've seen some really nice things. Timpson's, for example, who've not only told all their are staff to stay at home and they'll be fully paid, but are giving them additional help and protection.
I can see the Deputy Presiding Officer is telling me that I must draw this to an end, and I will do so. The final point that I want to make in the context of the legislation is that this does give powers with regard to isolation, with regard to distancing, but I think if those powers are to be used, people must have clarity, and particularly today what is facing us is that it is not clear what is essential work and what is not. I don't know to what extent, Deputy Presiding Officer, that will be in the gift of the Welsh Government to get some more clarity about that, but we cannot ask people to behave responsibly and then not tell them what responsible behaviour really looks like.