14. Debate: Legislative Consent Motion on the Coronavirus Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 1:08 pm on 24 March 2020.

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Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 1:08, 24 March 2020

I think all of us, when we're considering these matters, consider our values, our positions, both within this Chamber, but also our responsibilities to our families and to the people we love. There are many of us who have watched our tvs over recent weeks and have seen what is happening to friends across the way in Italy and Spain and elsewhere, who have seen the suffering of people who have contracted this virus, and seen what it has done to communities and whole countries. Many of us—Dawn Bowden spoke very powerfully about the reasons that she sought election to this place—fundamentally want the same thing. We want to take care of our communities, and we want the best for our communities. I think the leader of the opposition, Paul Davies, said exactly that in his opening remarks.

So, when I consider this Bill, I consider certainly the situation we're facing, but also how do we contribute to resolving this issue. And I ask myself three questions. Do the powers exist to deal with this? Are these powers appropriate? And how is the exercise of these powers supervised? I think there's broad agreement that we do not have the powers, and the Government does not have the powers, that it requires to deal with the growing situation that we are facing. All of us saw the scenes over the weekend of people pretending it's a bank holiday or pretending that it's a day off. And all of us, I think, were appalled by that. I saw reports in my own constituencies, where pubs were open to finish off the barrel. In fact, what they're doing is endangering not only the people there, but all of us in our communities. And it is also clear that there is a lack of clarity about where the powers lie, and how powers are enforced. So, it is clear to me that we need and Government needs these powers in this Bill in order to deliver the sort of programme it must do over the coming weeks.

And then we have to ask ourselves: are the powers appropriate? And I have to say, I am clear in my own mind that the powers are appropriate. But these are not measures that I would have supported in the past. These are measures that, frankly, I find abhorrent, and in any other circumstances are measures that not only would I not support, but I would fight against with all of my strength. They are measures, Deputy Presiding Officer, that quite frankly I would not have voted for only a few weeks ago. The growth of cases that we've seen, and I've seen in my own part of the world in the Aneurin Bevan health board area, where there are more cases for us than any other part of Wales—. I've seen and I've felt the fear that that creates in our communities. So, it is appropriate that we have these powers in order to protect the national health service, to strengthen the national health service, to strengthen the public services that are delivering the protection we require, but also to ensure that people act responsibly.

And therefore, how do we supervise those powers? For me, I hope that Ministers will make reports to this place whenever these powers are used. I hope that Ministers, and I expect Ministers, to come to this place to explain why these powers are being used, for how long these powers are used, what is the objective of those powers being exercised, and when they expect these powers to be removed. It is not right and it is not proper in a democracy that these powers rest on the statute book. These powers need to be limited, and I'm very grateful to see that Ministers here welcome the limitations of those powers. I'm grateful to see a six-month review, and I agree with what our colleague Mick Antoniw said about regular reporting. But there must be accountability and proper parliamentary oversight and supervision throughout the whole of this time, and we all need to take that seriously. But also we need to look clearly at what powers do exist. I'm not convinced that there are sufficient powers at the moment to regulate the actions of supermarkets and the actions of people within supermarkets. I'd be interested to hear what the Minister has to say about that. I have some real concerns about some of these measures and what they will do to the rights of people who suffer from mental health issues at the moment, and I think we need proper supervision of that.

But in closing, and in supporting the Government today, I want to say this, Deputy Presiding Officer: what has shocked me over the last few weeks is that we do not have in place sufficient civil contingencies legislation that is workable and able to be used by Government when they are facing an emergency. It is not good enough that the statute book does not include emergency legislation adequate to deal with a crisis. I would hope that when we have dealt with this matter, we will again then be able to look at the statute book in its totality and ensure that Governments, under supervision and with consent, have the powers they require, without going through this process, because there is no real scrutiny of this legislation taking place, either here or in Edinburgh or in Belfast or in Westminster. It is being rushed through in a week, in a few days. The most draconian limitations on our freedoms to act and our freedoms as citizens are being rushed through four Parliaments in three days. We therefore need to have on the statute book legislation that is considered, that is robust and provides Ministers and Governments with the ability to act where necessary, but to act in a way that has democratic accountability, supervision and clear reasons there at its heart. We do not have that at present.