Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 11:50 am on 24 March 2020.
If I can briefly return to testing. I heard what the First Minister said about the interpretation, the UK or Wales interpretation of World Health Organization advice, but it would help me if I could understand a little more about how that advice differs for Wales and the UK. Because it's a headline, isn't it? The public hear the World Health Organization saying, 'Test, test, test'; we are making decisions to do things differently here. And I think it would be helpful, perhaps not now, but if the Minister wants to write to us, so that we can give our constituents an explanation as to why we are not following World Health Organization advice. We know that it's been very successful, for example, doing that has been very successful in Germany.
And can I just ask the Minister, again—? He's mentioned that we're getting to a position where we'll be able to test they key healthcare workers. May I raise the issue with him again, which I know my colleague Rhun ap Iorwerth and others have raised, about testing for the families of key workers? I'm aware in the region that I represent of situations where you have two parents, who both work in elements of the health service, who are staying at home because there is a concern that their children have some symptoms. So I hope that the Minister will give some consideration—. Obviously, we must start with the staff, I fully accept that, but whether we can look to include—. It's a very unpleasant situation for the family, but it's a terrible waste of the national health service resources if you have two highly qualified professionals having to stay at home when there may be nothing wrong with them, or with their family.
I know that the Minister will share my concern about the physical health and well-being, and the emotional health and well-being, of people who are self-isolating for long periods of time. And the particular point I wish to raise with him—my colleague Leanne Wood has asked me to mention this—is the situation of families who may be vulnerable to domestic abuse. We all know that, sadly, for example, when families are together for long periods of time, these situations can worsen. So I'd like to ask the Minister today if he can have some further discussions with the Deputy Minister who has direct responsibility for these matters, to ensure that we are working constructively with the sector to put in place measures. It's been put to me, for example, by some volunteers in the sector that we could use empty bed and breakfasts, we could use empty hostels for emergency accommodation for people fleeing domestic abuse. Because we have to accept—and we have seen, sadly, in other countries that those situations have escalated.
I was very grateful for what the Minister said about community pharmacy. He will be aware that some staff on the front line are having some pretty awful experiences, with people—as the First Minister said—becoming impatient, becoming aggressive. And he mentions that we need to fully respect the community pharmacist's role. I wonder what his view would be about—and this is a difficult judgment call—but it's been put to me by community pharmacists that they are struggling a bit with deliveries, and that if people do have a healthy member of their family who can go out and collect, they would like people to be advised to do that. But I do understand that the Minister and the rest of us may have concerns about further transmission in that regard, but it would be useful to know what the Minister's advice would be in those circumstances.
I had some questions to ask about personal protective equipment. The Minister has offered us a written statement, and I won't delay the Chamber by asking those in any detail, but I do hope that that statement will address the distribution issues. I have had care home owners saying to me that the protective equipment is getting to Cardiff and it's getting to Swansea, but it's not getting into the rural areas, and it's not getting into the Valleys, particularly when it comes to the care sector rather than the health sector. This may be people raising concerns in a very fast-moving situation, as the Minister has mentioned, and that may have already been addressed, and I very much hope he can reassure us.
The First Minister, in responding to questions, mentioned some of the skills that people who've worked in hospitality will have, in terms of cleanliness, providing food, providing basic support. I wonder if the Minister has had discussions with the local health boards and with care providers to see what use they may be able to make of those skills, and indeed of some hospitality settings for people when they are in a step-down phase, where what they basically need is care and support—where they don't need acute medical support. And I'm grateful to him for mentioning Parc y Scarlets. We were very pleased that they've been so prepared to work with the local health board and the local authority. And he also mentions in his statement discussions with private hospital settings. And I wonder if we can have some guidance about when those might be concluded, because obviously this is an urgent situation.
Two brief, final points, one that the Minister may regard as slightly left field. I've been contacted by osteopaths in my region, who obviously will not be providing treatment to their private clients. We know that osteopathy is a treatment. We don't provide it on the national health service, but it is a treatment that has got a strong scientific base. Some of those osteopaths were raising with me whether they may be able to volunteer perhaps to come into hospitals to provide support for staff. They say that a lot of their private clients are actually NHS staff who have problems as a result of lifting. So, I'd just like to put that thought into the Minister's mix to see if there may be other groups of people who work in areas of care that are not in the public sector, but who may have skills that they can offer at this time.
And, finally, with regard to third sector organisations, I hope the Minister will agree with me that some of our third sector organisations are vital, both in terms of the care that they provide and the advice and support that they can provide. He will have seen the cancer charities, for example, coming together. I wonder what reassurances the Minister can offer that sector that their long-term future will be protected. I heard what Paul Davies had to say to the First Minister earlier about needing to fund front-line services at this time, but of course we will need those organisations when this crisis is over, and if we find ourselves in a situation—. And, of course, the Welsh Government has to change its budget priorities, nobody would doubt that for a moment, but if we find ourselves in the situation when the recovery comes and we've lost some of those key third sector organisations, because their funding isn't sustainable, I hope the Minister would agree with me that we would then be having to rebuild that network.
So, again, I'm very grateful to the Minister for his statement. Very pleased to see him here today, and I hope he can respond to some of the specific points that I've made.