Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 12:09 pm on 24 March 2020.
Thank you very much for the constant questions. Again, I want to reiterate Joyce's point about our staff and, of course, Joyce Watson has Members in her own family who are providing a health and care service, and will understand the commitment they need to provide and the fact that our staff know that they put in themselves in harm's way. They know that in treating people who are ill with a condition that is spreading fairly rapidly through the UK population, there's a real challenge for them as well. They continue to do so, but they understandably want the tools to be able to do their job, and they want the support of the public to be able to do their job as well.
Your point about getting information from appropriate sources is important, so that people don't unnecessarily burden our health and care services while being worried or taking inappropriate action because they've been looking at odd parts of the internet or social media-generated issues. So, the Welsh Government, Public Health Wales, statements by the chief medical officer—they are trusted sources of advice for people to learn what is happening in Wales and where to go for advice and support.
When it comes to co-ordinating local support, local authorities will act as the hub in a co-ordinating role to make sure that support and advice are given, and they will, of course, be working with the third sector. As I've indicated and as the First Minister indicated, we're having conversations with the army about their potential support to provide in the effort, because there is a significant number of vulnerable people in Wales who will need to be supported.
On your point about profiteering, it's a point well made. Whether it's paracetamol, Calpol or other normal goods, it is appalling to see some people take significant commercial advantage, often of the most vulnerable people by significantly raising prices when there is no supply issue, there is simply a commercial opportunity. Just as today, Sports Direct have been quickly put back in their box, it's important other people call out that behaviour. I think that people that undertake that now to make a fast profit may want to reflect that most members of the public have a pretty long memory when it comes to them being taken advantage of in such a transparent way.
On your point about restrictions on goods, and the point you make about baby food is well made, there's just no need to stock up for six months' supply, and what that does for people who are reliant on that, and don't have the means to go out and purchase huge amounts in advance—. Supermarkets themselves are already taking voluntary measures to restrict the supply and the sale of a range of items. One of the things that Governments across the UK have agreed is to relax some of the normal competition rules that mean that supermarkets can't talk to each other to agree on what to do. There are a range of areas where, actually, it's sensible for the supermarkets to co-ordinate what they're doing, and, actually, we're looking for a more consistent position on the voluntary restriction policed by supermarkets on a number of items, but if not, as the First Minister indicated, we may have to step in and use powers that we think we have available to us. But I'd much rather see a method of control that doesn't involve further legal action from the Government and, equally, I'd much rather see a level of public behaviour and co-operation that means that no action at all is required.
On utility payments, that's a point the Welsh Government has made and is well aware of in terms of how utility companies behave. Most of the larger ones are behaving in a relatively decent way. Your point about people who are off-grid for fuel and power is one that I'll take up with ministerial colleagues, but I know it's a real issue and exactly as you describe. Often, these are people who are more isolated physically and often, but not always, people who are older, potentially in at-risk categories as well.
On cross-border health and care, the normal flow should apply. So, if your normal secondary healthcare is over the English border, then that's where your provision should be, should you need intensive care, for the sake of argument, just as if the flow is in the other direction. It is to no-one's benefit to either have a 'fortress Wales' approach, or indeed a 'fortress England' approach where cross-border flows are deliberately cut off in a way that is not about providing the right sort of service that the national health service in every one of the four nations should do for people with real need.
On your point about public co-operation, I agree that's key, because we've only taken the significant measures that we have done within the last 24 hours because most members of the public were co-operating in following the advice and the guidance, but not enough people were. So, we've had to step in to take extraordinary measures that will be backed up by police powers within this week, and there are other measures that we could take, but I would much rather be in a position where Governments don't need to take further restrictive legal action and that the public understand that their behaviour will be key to how coronavirus spreads and is ultimately turned back, and that, ultimately, they're not doing it to make the life of the Government any easier, they're doing it for themselves and their own communities, and those people they probably will never get to meet otherwise.