3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:07 pm on 1 April 2020.

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Photo of Angela Burns Angela Burns Conservative 3:07, 1 April 2020

Minister, thank you for your statement. In fact, I think that's a very good reminder right at the end. On 1 March, who had any idea that we would be in the situation we are today? Therefore, I really want to add my thanks and my congratulations for the 7,000 additional NHS beds that have been created. I think that's outstanding work on behalf of or by the NHS and by all those partner organisations, from the local authorities to the many organisations that have come behind and offered space. I think 7,000 is a really quick and easy number to say but, my goodness, when you think about the logistics behind that, I really do congratulate all of them for pulling that together. 

In your statement, Minister, you go on to talk about PPE, and I am going to have to return to this issue, because it is probably the issue that I have the most contact—or one of the most contacts—from people over. I do think that, in the initial days, there's been a lack of clear communication to people about when and who should use PPE, and I think that this situation has now got even muddier. I understand the scientific advice, which is that if you're dealing with somebody with COVID-19 symptoms then you wear PPE, and depending on where you are in the chain of people who are dealing with somebody who is ill with COVID-19 depends on that type of PPE that you will wear. 

But I think the issue, Minister, is really that this is a scary disease; that people are willingly putting themselves in harm's way to help the rest of us; that we know that 30 per cent of the people who have COVID-19 will not show any sign of having symptoms; and we know that about 80 per cent of the Welsh population will have COVID-19 at some point or other. So, I totally understand the concerns of the district nurses, of the midwives, of the morticians, as well as those of the people who are on the front line as we recognise the front line, in other words, on acute wards.

So, please can you perhaps come back and tell us how we're going to get this PPE? When is it going to be available? How clear a guidance are you going to be able to put out there so people understand who should use it? And do you actually foresee a situation where we accept that, if you are dealing with the public, you are going to need to have some form of PPE, whatever that is?

So, for example, a domiciliary care worker may be looking after 10 very vulnerable people and, on his or her travels through those 10 people, they could unwittingly be spreading the disease without knowing it, because we don't know how it manifests itself in everyone. So, I just think that, on the subject of PPE, this is an issue that we haven’t yet got to the heart of. Are you able to tell us how much PPE we need, how much PPE we've got, and whether or not you'll be able to source it at the appropriate times for this situation to move through?

I'd also like to raise two more questions, Llywydd. The first is: now we have a UK-wide approach to procurement, are you able to tell us what kind of data Welsh Government is needing to feed into the UK Government? Do you have a really good handle on the forecasted need for equipment such as ventilators, PPE and testing kits? And are you able to share the clear numbers of where we are now and where we need to be?

Finally, Minister, I understand that ethical guidelines are being drawn up to help doctors prioritise patients for hospital admission and treatment. I understand and have huge sympathy for those doctors, because these are tough decisions for doctors to make, working in stressful decisions, but they are decisions that need to be made fairly. Can you confirm, Minister, when those guidelines will be available? And can you confirm that the Welsh Government has heard the rights statement issued by the Older People's Commissioner for Wales, Age UK, Age Cymru, Age Northern Ireland, and the Commissioner for Older People for Northern Ireland, among other people?

Because I truly believe that the fact that someone is in need of care and support and is currently in a care home or in their own home should not be used as a proxy for their health status. Do you agree that to make such decisions without considering either older persons' needs or their capacity to benefit from hospital treatment would be discriminatory and unfair? And, Minister, will you ensure that vital end of life palliative care and do not resuscitate and do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation conversations are undertaken in a respectful, compassionate and informed manner?

Will you undertake to provide guidance on this issue? Because I have been approached by many older people and disabled groups who are feeling under enormous pressure to sign up for things that they haven't had a conversation about and don't want to sign up to. Everybody has rights, and everybody wants to try to beat this awful disease.