4. & 5. Debate: The General Principles of the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill and motion to agree the financial resolution in respect of the Local Government and Elections (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:27 pm on 8 April 2020.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 4:27, 8 April 2020

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. I'm very pleased to contribute to this debate. The Finance Committee has made 19 recommendations, and I thank the Minister for her letter of 23 March, which sets out her response to those recommendations. Given the time available today for this debate, I will focus on our main concerns only. As a committee, we do acknowledge that this is a significant piece of legislation, but there are two areas where the committee has particular concerns.

First, when the Minister announced the Bill and introduced it, she said that she intended to bring forward amendments to extend the franchise to prisoners and to young people in custody. We were critical of a similar approach taken during scrutiny of the Senedd and Elections (Wales) Bill, when it was announced during Stage 1 that significant amendments would be brought forward in relation to the financial arrangements for the Electoral Commission at that point. So, the committee reiterates its view that inserting new provisions via amendment at Stage 2 reduces the committee's ability to consider the general costs of the proposed legislation, particularly as the opportunity for financial scrutiny of these changes is limited. Today, the Assembly will be asked to approve a financial resolution, but if there are substantial changes made during Stage 2, the Assembly will have voted to commit resources without being fully informed of the costs of the Bill. The committee believes that it's essential that the Assembly has the relevant financial information in order to ensure that it's able to make an informed decision when it's being asked to commit resources. 

Secondly, the Bill contains a significant number of enabling powers for Welsh Ministers, and these powers, of course, have not been costed. This is another issue that we have raised on a number of occasions, namely that the Member in charge should include the best estimate of the costs associated with subordinate legislation alongside the relevant primary legislation. Nevertheless, I am pleased that the Minister has agreed in principle to recommendations 1, 5, 15 and 17, which relate to the Welsh Government providing full and robust regulatory impact assessments for any relevant subordinate legislation made as a result of this Bill.

The committee is concerned that some costs in the RIA relating to voting, elections and awareness raising have been averaged across principal councils. They don’t take account of variances in local authority areas. We feel that some costs are likely to fall more heavily in certain areas. Our recommendation 2 asks the Welsh Government to undertake further work to identify the distribution of the electorate across Wales and to clarify the approach it intends to take to any funding allocated to support the provisions of the Bill relating to elections and voting. We are pleased the Minister has accepted this recommendation and is currently working with local authorities and stakeholders to consider how best the Welsh Government can manage the potential differential impacts on individual local authorities. We look forward to receiving an update in due course.

In relation to elections and voting, the committee is of the view that there are a number of areas where more information could have been provided. It is disappointing that recommendation 6, which asks for further information on the types of pilot schemes that the Welsh Government may wish to trial and the potential resources required for such activity, has been rejected. Whilst noting that the Minister does not intend to trial any electoral pilots at the 2022 local elections, the Minister has stated that there are likely to be cost implications because of changes to electoral management software, staffing, training, and so on. The committee believes that an estimate of potential resource required for such activity should have been included in the RIA.

The Bill requires local authorities to make arrangements to broadcast their meetings in the interests of transparency in the decision-making process. The RIA estimates that the broadcasting contract for Wales would cost a principal authority, on average, approximately £12,000 per annum. We heard evidence that this figure is significantly underestimated, and we are therefore pleased that the Minister has accepted recommendation 10, to consider whether an all-Wales broadcasting contract is feasible and whether this would be the most cost-effective solution. We are also pleased that her officials will be considering further the benefits and disbenefits of doing this.

The committee notes the general support of the WLGA for the proposal for corporate joint committees as a vehicle for collaboration. However, we consider that there could be potential start-up costs to establishing such committees as well as potential savings over time. The committee is pleased that the Minister has accepted recommendation 16, namely that the Welsh Government shares its analysis of the costs and benefits of establishing corporate joint committees when the review has concluded, and will consider accounting for this information in the RIA.

I recognise that this Bill will progress in unprecedented times and that we may see changes at the amending stages that may be less substantial than expected. However, I would reiterate my comments at the beginning of my contribution, namely that Bills should be as fully developed as possible on introduction and that amending stages should not be used to introduce new, extensive policy proposals that haven’t been subject to scrutiny at Stage 1. Thank you, Llywydd.