3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:47 pm on 22 April 2020.

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Photo of Angela Burns Angela Burns Conservative 2:47, 22 April 2020

Good afternoon, Minister. Thank you very much indeed for your statement. I would like to start by thanking not just all our health services and our community services, but everybody who's helping Wales to try to contain and deal with this dreadful situation that we're in. I'd also like to express my condolences to all the people who have lost those that they have loved so much over these last few awful weeks. I'd also like to put on record that I am grateful for our discussions on a regular basis, and I have found them very helpful in both understanding what's going on and in being able to scrutinise the Government. 

Turning to your statement, I'm delighted that you feel that there is improvement being made on the subject of personal protective equipment and getting it to the right place at the right time and to the right people. Can you please confirm, though, how much extra the Welsh Government is procuring outside of the four-nation buying strategy? I am completely of the same opinion that we should be in the four-nation buying strategy. There's obviously going to be a PPE-wide shortage in the world for many, many months to come, and it makes sense to have that consolidated buying power, but of course, there are many other strands that we can take advantage of. So, are you in a position to actually tell us a little bit more about the procurement of additional PPE supplies using the National Procurement Service that you've identified within your statement? 

I do also want to thank and welcome the great news that so many Welsh companies have turned their hand to helping us all in this very difficult time. 

Now, I'd like to turn to the testing part of your statement, Minister. I am concerned, deeply concerned, about the decision to drop the targets for testing. As the First Minister said in his contribution a little bit earlier on—his statement—we're in this for the long haul, and I think that this is such an important area. And I think you can tell it's an important area, because it's been raised today by so many other people. I think it is vital that if we are to emerge from lockdown with the chances of a second or third spike being really suppressed, we need to have a very strong testing regime.

I note your rapid review—I have a copy of it here, I've read it. To be frank, it doesn't say an awful lot more than we all knew and have known for these past few weeks, it's just taken time to produce it. I am disappointed that we're only up to 1,800 tests a day, down from the promised 9,000 when we first started all this. I do welcome the web-based booking platform, but I want to reiterate my call for there to be an identifiable lead who can deliver on a Wales testing programme, not just today, but in the months to come. Someone—and a team—with logistics and delivery success and experience, because we not only need point-of-care testing and regional testing centres, but we need those rapid results. In west Wales and north Wales, I'm still being told that those tests are coming back too late. We're going to be looking at at-home kits, we're going to need contact tracers, we're going to need to build software, we're going to have to look at the modelling that we’re going to need to do in order to get us out of lockdown, and that needs a dedicated team.

A couple of days ago, you said that testing was your No. 1 priority, the next day you said that PPE was your No. 1 priority. I absolutely recognise that you're being torn in all sorts of directions with competing priorities. I urge you, Minister, to considering giving this to a team that can really focus on it and deliver it, because it's going to be such a vital strategy for us to move forward.

I just want to deal with two other areas that I found regrettable were not in your statement. The first is around the fact that some three weeks ago, health trusts in England were given a reassurance that they could have their current debts written off to ensure that they could fully focus on fighting COVID-19. But here, there's no similar pledge, and I noticed the responses in yesterday's press conference when you were very keen to sort of say, 'Well, we don't really know what kind of money we're getting. We're not quite sure.' I can be clear—we’ve got £2 billion coming this year as a COVID fund; on top of that, we've got another £1.4 billion of consequentials. I noted in your written answer to my question, you said that you don't charge interest on the debt. Yes, absolutely, and you cite Cardiff and Vale as an example of a health board that's come out of debt, but let's be very clear, that board was under targeted intervention from Welsh Government for two and a half years, and it achieved that in pre-COVID times. We're in a different place now. We have health boards that, between them, owe £100 million of Welsh Government debt, and they still are also working on an assumption that all the work that they're doing now, Welsh Government will pick up the cost on. Will you please lay out, very clearly, the financial support that you intend to offer to these health boards?

My final set of questions, actually, is around the data that we're currently collecting. Data, of course, is always one of those things where you can interpret it in a great many ways, and different countries are measuring data in very different ways. But I am concerned that recent data sets that have come out show such enormous disparities, health Minister, between health boards in terms of numbers of people who have died in hospital, numbers of people who have died in care homes, in hospices, or even in their own homes. And I think that, without us really understanding that data, we cannot start to build up a significant picture of how the COVID-19 process is working; the kinds of people—when, where why, how—vital questions to understand anything to really get to grips with what's happened and what we need to do in future. So, will you please review how we're collectinig our data and how we're using it? So, one quick example: we're saying that, in Aneurin Bevan, only about 10 to 12 people died of COVID in care homes compared to the neighbouring health board where the number is almost three times higher. Now, it could be that they got it in a care home, they were taken to hospital, and that is, sadly, where they died. But that is very important data to understand, because then we know that the outbreak was actually in the care home and we can take those kinds of measures. So, will you please review that?

I obviously have a number of questions, but I can see that the Llywydd will want to hear other people, rightly, and so I'm going to stop there. Once again, I would like to say thank you very much for the information you do share on a regular basis.