3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:00 pm on 22 April 2020.

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Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 3:00, 22 April 2020

Let me focus on a few of those key issues, then. There's still, I think, a lot of confusion on testing. I remain, as you know, Minister, unconvinced about the Welsh Government's stance on testing. We've been told again today that just over 20,000 people have been tested in Wales to date, but to put that in context: under original targets, we'd have tested 20,000 since Monday morning. Now, you wouldn't have picked the original targets—8,000 a day-plus by now—out of the air; they'd have been based on advice. We know the World Health Organization advice is that testing is really a key part of the battle against coronavirus, so can you explain what change there has been in the advice that you are given on the value of testing, because we've gone from that targeted 8,000 or 9,000 a day to around 1,000? You just said a minute ago that it was 1,800 today. Now, it's capacity of 1,800 today; it was fewer than 1,000 tests again yesterday, so we need to know what you are being told differently.

Yesterday, we were told that there's less spreading than we thought: yes, but that's because of lockdown, because of effective social distancing; it's working perhaps better than we had feared. It doesn't make the virus less contagious, so don't we need to have effective community testing in place before we can come out of lockdown? In fact, shouldn't we say that we can't leave lockdown? We cannot have substantial lifting of restrictions until we have community testing in place, and that's need a plan. We don't seem to have one, or I haven't been convinced that we have one, so can the Minister please square that anomaly for us? How can we build up our testing ready for relaxing lockdown rules without even having a trajectory to follow for increasing testing numbers?

And the First Minister said today we have no capacity problem. If we have no capacity problem, why are you, quite rightly, putting £50 million towards increasing capacity? The way I see it, we're just not reaching that capacity quickly enough. The First Minister said that it's a matter of not having enough people being put forward or coming forward for testing. Well, how about having a policy that encourages people to come forward, as a growing community-testing model, so that we are building up for the release of lockdown? We all want it to happen as soon as possible, but we can't do it until we know that the time is right.

Let me turn to PPE: real concern. Two things we need to know, of course: that we have enough PPE on the shelves now, and this week and next week for those that need them. I think from what I understand, we're sort of okay at the moment, which is good, although I'm still hearing of issues, especially in the care sector. In the longer term, though, the concerns I hear are that there's a lack of confidence in what is on its way in coming weeks, how much of it, and, crucially, what the delivery schedules are to make sure it gets out to where it's needed. Now, can we expect to have that kind of detailed plan? And with the military, as I understand, having assisted with the review of distribution, can the results of that review be shared as a means of giving people confidence?

I'm still also interested—and I've asked the Minister on a number of occasions—where we stand in terms of being able to source our own PPE internationally, as well as being part of your important pooled efforts across the UK. We know the background: suppliers in England refusing to sell PPE to care homes in Wales; flights full of PPE landing in Scotland, a major order on its way to Northern Ireland, but nothing quite like that happening here. So, if we are putting in those kinds of orders ourselves, and getting our own supplies—from China, for example—that's great; it's good news. Maybe I could ask you to share details of those orders today. But we're also hearing of UK Government telling other devolved administrations, 'You can no longer procure yourselves internationally.' Perhaps you can tell us if you've had such an instruction.

Third brief area for questioning: can I ask what work is being done on PPE for public use? I think there's growing evidence that wearing masks might well be useful to slow transmission when some social distancing regulations are released. So, on top of PPE for professional use, what plans are being put in place by Welsh Government for the procurement or production or distribution of public-use masks, because it may well be that we'll all need them soon?

And finally—also a question from me on data. We have the daily data on deaths related to COVID in hospital settings, with a lag because of death registration. We then wait to see COVID-linked deaths figures in the community too, which suggests, I think, that around a third more are dying directly of COVID in total than the official daily figures from hospitals show. But, on top of that, we have those tragic deaths occurring—non-COVID deaths, but deaths most likely that wouldn't have occurred were it not for the current restrictions: people not seeking timely treatment, not visiting the doctor and so on. The Office for National Statistics has also compared death rates now with the usual death rates, and found that the figure to be almost double what we would have usually expected across the UK for this time of year. That's 8,000 more in the first full week of April. So, are you able to tell us with any confidence what you think the current figures are for the number of deaths in total in Wales now, and are we able from that to assess through that data the steps that could be taken to save lives?