4. Statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales: Response to Coronavirus (COVID-19)

– in the Senedd at 2:32 pm on 20 May 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:32, 20 May 2020

(Translated)

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales on the response to coronavirus. And the Deputy Presiding Officer will take the chair for this item. Minister, Ken Skates. 

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) took the Chair.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 2:32, 20 May 2020

Diolch, Llywydd. Last Friday, the First Minister set out the framework that will lead Wales out of the coronavirus pandemic. The document we published sets out how and when decisions on the easing of the lockdown will be made in our economy, in our communities and in our public services over the coming weeks and months. And as Ministers, we are supporting that work. My task is to ensure that, when the time is right, our businesses, our transport network and our skills system are ready not only to adapt and transition to the post-coronavirus world but, crucially, that we are ready and able to build back better for the sake of this and for future generations.

A key plank of this work is ensuring we don't pull away too soon the critical economic underpinning of the lockdown—the support the UK Government has introduced through the job retention scheme. The job retention scheme has been essential to enabling large parts of the economy to hibernate throughout this crisis. None of the devolved Governments acting on their own had the fiscal firepower to secure incomes and livelihoods in the way that the job retention scheme has been. And so it's essential that the job retention scheme is not withdrawn or scaled back before businesses have been able to properly restart their operations.

This was the message that the finance Minister and I sent to the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a joint letter last week, and I welcome the subsequent steps he then took to extend the scheme until October. While it provides an important window for us all to think about the future, I urge the UK Government to involve us in those discussions meaningfully.

We are all acutely aware that some sectors have been hit harder than others—that, for some, lockdown started sooner and will end much later. As we approach the summer season, we are all aware of the impact coronavirus is having on the tourism and hospitality sector.  One of the more recent concerns that has been raised with me is the issue of prompt payments to small businesses. I urge all large organisations, both in the public and in the private sector, to play their part in supporting those smaller businesses by making payments on time.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 2:35, 20 May 2020

But the conversation needs to begin with the UK Government now about the future, about how economic life will function after the job retention scheme and the self-employment income support scheme have been taken away. In Wales, our priority has not changed. Public health and the control of the pandemic remain our No. 1 priority. That's why, on 14 May, I issued an important reminder to anyone considering travelling to Wales: please stay at home. Visitors will be welcome with open arms to Wales once we are through this crisis, but, for now, we must tackle the virus by staying home.

Now, a major part of our work has been to support businesses through this pandemic, and our package of support is the most generous for businesses anywhere in the UK, and it includes a £100 million loans scheme to help more than 1,000 businesses through the Development Bank of Wales; a £400 million economic resilience fund grant scheme, which, for phase 1, has attracted more than 9,500 applications, with over 6,000 offers already made to date, worth in excess of £100 million; and also, of course, the non-domestic rates-based grant support for small businesses and businesses operating in the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors, awarding to date 51,100 grants worth more than £626 million. It's a total package of £1.7 billion, worth 2.7 per cent of gross domestic product.

On 27 April, we paused the economic resilience fund to give us an opportunity to consider where further support could make the biggest impact, not only to help those businesses we haven’t already reached, but also to consider what support all businesses will need through the ongoing rescue phase, as well as into the restart and recovery phases, as lockdown measures are eased in line with last Friday’s framework. That work is advancing well and we are finalising the details of the next phase of the economic resilience fund. I expect to reopen the economic resilience fund eligibility checker for new applications by the middle of June, allowing companies time to prepare their applications. Following that, I expect to open for full applications later in the month. This will enable access to the remaining £100 million of the £300 million already approved and allocated to support microbusinesses, small and medium sized enterprises and large businesses.

Now, in terms of eligibility, phase 2 of the fund will operate in the same way as phase 1, but with an update to the micro scheme. This will enable limited companies that are not VAT registered to access the fund, something that so many small businesses have been calling for. In addition, we are also working with our partners in local government to develop further support proposals for those not yet reached—for example, start-up businesses. We've also supplemented the Government's discretionary assistance fund, which supports people who are recently employed but not eligible for the job retention scheme, as well as the self-employed.   

I will, of course, Llywydd, continue to keep Members up to date on these matters. In the meantime, the UK Government has a critical role in expanding its support for strategic businesses still struggling to find appropriate support. In particular, I have asked the UK Government to look again at what help it can provide to safeguard businesses critical to our national economic security, such as Tata Steel and Airbus.

Earlier today, Llywydd, the Minister for Education outlined a COVID-19 post-16 sector resilience plan to give education providers a clear framework for planning and delivering our employability and skills response. Employability support is vital in times of economic uncertainty and responding to those swiftly. One year on from its official launch, the Working Wales service has directly supported more than 31,500 adults, and over 6,000 young people, who are looking for employability support. That service has been adapted in response to the pandemic and has extended its web chat, text messaging and call service facilities to best meet the needs of users. 

But this is not the only change that we have made. For apprentices, we have developed online learning modules to ensure they are able to continue to progress through their learning. For our traineeship learners, we have developed digital learning packages and maintained their training allowances. And for those furthest from the labour market, our community employability programmes have adapted their delivery to continue providing outreach in our most deprived and vulnerable communities for young people and adults. For those closer to the labour market, support is being provided through ReAct, Jobs Growth Wales, and the employability skills programme. And for those in work, the Union Learning Fund, with support from the Wales Trades Union Congress, is delivering immediate skills solutions and support to workers during and after the coronavirus crisis.

Now, it has to be said, Llywydd, that none of this would be possible without the support of our social partners. And on 14 May, together with the First Minister, I met members of the shadow social partnership council to discuss the challenges we all face over the coming months, to discuss how we lift the lockdown safely, to discuss how we can take advantage of, and move towards, an economy that sees us travel less, but work smarter.

Last week, I also met transport unions, passenger groups, public transport operators, stakeholder representatives, and Transport for Wales to discuss the guidance we are developing to help prepare our public transport network for the new normal. In the short term, we are considering ways in which we can manage demand for public transport and maintain strict social distancing. Some of the measures that we discussed were the prioritising of public transport for key workers, encouraging greater pre-booking and better planning of travel, and staggering shift patterns in the public sector, and encouraging the private sector to do likewise. We'll publish this guidance in the coming weeks, in readiness for any easing of the lockdown that might occur through the next 21-day review of regulations.

Now, Llywydd, this week is, of course, Mental Health Awareness Week, and we recognise that this is a very uncertain and stressful time for businesses and employees. That's why, as part of our package of advice, we have included information on mental health and well-being on the Business Wales website to help business leaders take care of themselves and their staff. These include the Time to Change Wales programme and the Public Health Wales 'How are you doing?' campaign. Mental health is something that is very important to me, and I'd urge all businesses and employees to make use of these invaluable resources.

And, Llywydd, I'd just like to end by offering my thanks again to Members across this Chamber for the advice, the ideas, and the counsel that they have provided over the last few months. We will get through this crisis, and we will build back better in our economy, in our communities and in our public services, and we will work together to do it. And now I'm very pleased to be able to take questions.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 2:42, 20 May 2020

Can I begin by thanking the Minister for the helpful and co-operative way in which he's worked with parties across this Senedd in this very difficult time? I'm sure this is a time when, whatever our differences, we all want to see the Welsh Government succeed, and, in the context of our discussions this afternoon, we want to see and to be able to support the Minister in his aspirations for us to be able to build back better and to keep our economy strong.

I'd like to ask a few specific questions, if I may. With regard to the economic resilience fund, I know that the Minister had hoped to be able to reopen slightly earlier. And I wonder if he's able to put on record the explanation that he's given as to why it's been important to ensure that there is no duplication in provision, so that those businesses who are still waiting for support can better understand why this slightly unexpected delay has been necessary, which I do accept that it has been. Can he confirm that this slightly longer pause—I'm very pleased to hear, by the way, what he says about including businesses not able to pay VAT, but can he confirm that this slightly longer pause will enable him to give further consideration to some of the other missing businesses that he might be able to include where proof may be a bit more difficult? He did mention start-up businesses, but I'd also draw his attention to tourism businesses that pay council tax not business rates, which currently, of course, cannot be supported.

He mentions the UK Government's furlough scheme, and I'm sure we are all extremely glad that that's in place, and very glad that it's been extended. But for, of course, some of the people caught in the issues around being new starters and therefore not being able to be furloughed, the extension to the scheme for those individuals is potentially not good news. Can I ask the Minister this afternoon if he will continue to make representations to the UK Government around the position of the new starters, now that we know that the extension is in place? And will he also continue to raise the concerns that I and others have raised with him about some inflexibilities in the scheme? Businesses may, for example, wish, as the lockdown begins to be lifted, to enable some staff to return part time, but they may not be able to take them back on full time. And in terms of a gradual restart to our economy, particularly in terms of tourism businesses, I hope that he’ll agree with me that that flexibility in the furlough scheme will be essential, because otherwise businesses may have no choice other than just simply not to open at all.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 2:45, 20 May 2020

Can you bring your question to a close there now, because you're well over time?

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

I do apologise, Dirprwy Lywydd, just one final question. I'm very glad to see what the Minister has said about the guidance regarding safe public transport. Can he say a little bit more about progress on broader guidance around safe return to work?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Dirprwy Lywydd, can I thank Helen Mary Jones not only for her questions, but also the ideas that she’s been able to offer me in recent times? I really do value them. They have helped to shape not just the second phase of the economic resilience fund, but other interventions. So, I’m very grateful indeed.

We are looking to take advantage of the coming fortnight to be able to take stock of the UK Government’s bounce back loan scheme, and also to ensure that we can work very closely with local authority partners on any details of a hardship scheme for the remaining businesses that may fall through the gaps. It’s also important that we ensure that we don’t inadvertently or unfortunately, accidentally, double fund any businesses that may try applying for both ERF phase 1 and ERF phase 2. By setting mid June as the date when we will open up the eligibility checker, we can be confident that we will have completed all payments to successful applicants from the first phase of the scheme.

In terms of some of those businesses that have been highlighted, some of those sectors, those bed-and-breakfasts that pay council tax may be eligible for ERF funding, provided they are VAT registered and employ, or if they are not then they would need to meet two of three points in our criteria—those three points regard being VAT registered, employing people by PAYE, or having a turnover of over £50,000. If they cannot meet that, then we are looking at how a further hardship fund may be able to assist.

But the purpose of our economic interventions is to support business that employs people, business that is viable, business that the owners and their employees rely on for their living. I’m afraid that we simply do not have the firepower to be able to support lifestyle businesses, and so we are having to be selective in terms of which businesses we are supporting. That’s why it’s absolutely right that we put our financial resource to best use in those businesses that would otherwise cease trading and collapse.

I would agree entirely with Helen Mary Jones regarding the need to ensure that the furlough scheme is more flexible in the months to come, and that’s why we wish to be discussing the scheme for how it operates from August to October right now. We need to be engaged in a meaningful way and this is what was discussed just this morning with counterparts from the devolved administrations and from BEIS. I will continue to press UK Government to be more flexible in terms of the application criteria and specifically the eligibility concerning dates. We would wish to see applications for furlough extended to the period between 15 March and 1 April to take account of seasonal workers.

We have established a greater degree of funding within the discretionary assistance fund to assist people who have fallen through this gap, on a temporary basis. Should the UK Government not address that particular problem regarding the dates, then we would again review whether any further support is required through the discretionary assistance fund.

I think Helen Mary Jones raises the important point about guidance. We have to ensure that as we lift restrictions, as we ease the lockdown, people have confidence in accessing businesses, in going into the workplace. We’ve been discussing with our social partners the guidance that not only applies to public transport, but also to businesses, on a sectoral basis, that takes advantage of the work that was carried out by BEIS in terms of safer working, but which also incorporates, crucially, the regulations here in Wales regarding the 2m rule. I look forward to being able to publish that guidance in the coming weeks, so that it enables businesses to incorporate any new ways of working sooner rather than later, so that they can transition into normal operations relatively seamlessly.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 2:50, 20 May 2020

I'm very grateful to the Minister for his replies. With regard to tourism businesses, I think I have already raised with him the need particularly for them to be able to have their safe return to work guidance as soon as possible. I think they're all very well aware that they won't be amongst the first businesses returning, but they're also well aware that they will need to undertake potentially structural changes in their premises before they can open, and that they may also need to provide some retraining for their staff so that the staff are aware. So, I wonder if the Minister can give us some indication as to when he might be able to make the sector-specific business guidance available for tourism. And can he confirm that that guidance will include specific guidance for different sectors within hospitality and tourism—everything from caravan parks to camping sites to tourism boats, for example, where there'll be different issues around social distancing in all of those? 

I'm grateful to him for what he said about the furlough scheme and continuing to press the case for the new starters. As he knows, it's up to 22,000 Welsh citizens, we think, who are caught in this position. And while I'm grateful for what he has to say about the discretionary assistance fund, I'm sure he will acknowledge that that is not a replacement and he wouldn't seek for it to be a replacement for those people being appropriately furloughed.

Finally, can I just thank him once again for keeping us updated and ask him to confirm that he will make a statement to this place as soon as he is able to about the exact criteria for the new phase of the economic resilience fund?  

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 2:52, 20 May 2020

I can give my assurance that I'll be publishing the criteria as soon as I possibly can—full criteria—and I'll be making a statement to Members. Can I say that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the tourism sector right now? It has never been through such uncertain times as it's going through right now, and we wish to support the sector in every way we can, alongside the UK Government, who obviously have far deeper pockets and the ability to support the sector with financial resource. 

In terms of some of the questions that Helen Mary Jones asked regarding guidance, the guidance we'll publishing will be relevant to sectors, and the guidance that's been published by BEIS has been relevant to workplaces, and it will outline how structural alterations, how construction work within premises, can take place in a safe way. We're trying to be as comprehensive as possible, in terms of the guidance that's being drafted, so that all businesses are able to reflect upon the regulations that we have here in Wales. But, of course, the guidance that is already available from BEIS largely covers in a satisfactory way safe working arrangements. What we are going to be producing is an enhanced version and a version that is strictly applicable to Wales. 

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 2:53, 20 May 2020

Minister, can I thank you for your statement and the constructive way that you have been working with opposition spokespeople? You mention that you are urging the UK Government Ministers to involve you in discussions, and I wonder if you've also extended an invitation to UK Government Ministers to be involved in your discussions in terms of the next phase of the economic resilience fund.

I am particularly pleased that you've given a date for the next phase of the economic resilience fund, but I'm a bit disappointed why it's so far off. I've been telling businesses that have been contacting my office, some on a daily basis, that 'It's coming soon.' That was three or four weeks ago. The next fund, if it's not available for the middle of June, that's three, four weeks away yet, and if applications are not open until the end of June, I think that's a long time for businesses to wait. Is there any way at all that you can bring that forward and perhaps explain the rationale about why that date is there? 

You've also said, and perhaps you can clarify this, that people will be able to prepare their applications in advance of the fund. What I don't understand is how they can do that if they don't know what the eligible criteria are. And if the checker isn’t available until the middle of June, how on earth can they apply in advance if that's the case?

In regard to VAT, you've specifically said that this is for limited companies only. This was a big concern raised by businesses: if they're not registered for VAT, they're not eligible. There are very few businesses that are limited that are not registered for VAT. The businesses that were raising these concerns are almost certainly not going to be VAT registered and you will be aware of the gaps. If you can give us any more indication about those gaps in business support that will be phased by phase 2, and I'm particularly thinking about businesses that started back in April 2019 that have still not been able to access any funds at all. I wonder if you could give us any hope for those businesses as well.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

Yes, of course, Dirprwy Lywydd. And for those businesses, we're looking at the establishment of, as I said a little earlier, a hardship bursary, which will require the support of local authorities who'll be required to administer such a fund. That requires quite a considerable amount of administration, and that's why we need to make sure that systems that are robust are in place before we hit 'go' on the scheme, which in turn explains the time frame that we're looking at.

Now, I'm keen to manage expectations and to underpromise and overdeliver, which is why I've said that the eligibility tool will be open by mid June. If we can bring that forward in any way, then we most certainly will do. I recognise that there's a need to act urgently. We've been doing that. We've got the most comprehensive and generous package of support anywhere in the UK. We are keen, in Government, to main our position as offering the best package of support for businesses. So, we'll do all we can to bring forward a scheme as soon as possible. But we also need to ensure that we do it in a way that takes account of the UK Government's bounce back loan scheme and, of course, the first round of awards that are being made from ERF.

But I totally accept what Russell George is saying, that we need to ensure that we give confidence to businesses that further support is going to be available, and we're going to capture as many of those business that fell through the gaps first time around, and have fallen through the gaps in terms of UK Government support, including the self-employment income support scheme and the job retention scheme.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 2:57, 20 May 2020

Thank you, Minister. I think I'm particularly keen to understand how businesses can actually apply for the scheme before the checker is available. They can't prepare unless they know if they're eligible or not.

I wonder, also, if you could address why you were so reticent, I suppose, to publish an aspirational timetable with clear milestones for a phased reopening of the Welsh economy, and when that will take place.

I am also very concerned about the coach and bus industry, and I wonder if you could offer any outline of support that is coming for this particular sector.

I also note that the Federation of Small Businesses has made some very good suggestions on how the Welsh Government can support businesses to reopen, and I wonder how you would respond to some of their suggestions, namely that the Welsh Government should: publish advice and guidance on the 2m rule; introduce a social distancing grant fund that would target those businesses that are perhaps struggling to make some of those adaptations; introduce a tourism hibernation scheme to ensure that businesses in this sector particularly can survive until the 2021 season; and finally, how the Welsh Government's £19 million transformational towns programme can help towns to adapt in readiness for the recovery phase.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 2:59, 20 May 2020

Russell George has asked a number of really significant questions there that I'll try my best to answer succinctly. First of all, the eligibility tool will be available before the scheme is open, so any business that is considering applying will be able to check whether they're going to be eligible. All the criteria will be available online. I will endeavour, as soon as possible, to launch that fund, but we have to do so knowing that all of the systems are in place and that we have the full support of our colleagues in local government in any hardship bursary scheme that we introduce.

And in terms of a time frame for the reopening of certain sectors of the economy, I think it's important that we all operate our best endeavours in trying to get to grips with the pandemic and trying to kill off the virus right now. Setting an artificial, even an aspirational time frame, may lead to people being a little more relaxed about the need to actually kill the virus. If people know that business will only resume as normal as a consequence of killing the virus, I think the effort will be so much more intense, and that's why I'm keen to make sure that we just focus on controlling the virus.

In terms of the support that's being offered to the coach and bus sector, we established a £29 million hardship fund for the bus service providers. Now, the fund was financed through a consequential from the UK Government, but it only lasts until the end of June. We've been clear in our correspondence and our discussions with UK Government counterparts that there needs to be longer term surety funding for the bus sector to ensure that bus providers don't walk away, that they don't hand over the keys. So, I'm hopeful that the UK Government will listen to what we've called for and we'll be able to provide a much longer term support package for the bus sector.

But in addition to that, the economic resilience fund has been operating for businesses across all sectors, and I'm pleased to say that we have been able to support coach and bus operators with that particular fund. Offers have been made to some major employers in the bus industry and the coach industry. And I do welcome very much the paper that was produced by the Federation of Small Businesses. We published the 2m regulations. The advice and the guidance for safely operating at work for both employees and business owners will be published. That will be an enhanced version of what's already been provided by BEIS, adding in Welsh regulations on social distancing. And I've raised already with UK Government Ministers the need to consider a grant in order to help businesses adapt to what will be the new normal. I'm hopeful that the UK Government will be able to provide financial resource in order to be able to administer grants to businesses, particularly small businesses where the costs could be overwhelming. 

In terms of the tourism industry, we have asked UK Government to consider a VAT holiday in the tourism sector. I think this could be very beneficial, particularly in the recovery period, but equally, my friend and colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas has been having numerous calls with UK Government counterparts and with the trade bodies concerning longer term support for the industry to do exactly what you've suggested, Russell, which is to ensure that they can hibernate through the worst of this crisis.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour 3:02, 20 May 2020

Thank you. We have about 12 minutes left and we've had two sets of questions, so I'm going to ask for brevity, Minister, and sorry about that, and brevity from the next set of questions as well. Jenny Rathbone. Jenny Rathbone? No. Okay. Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:03, 20 May 2020

I'm not sure Huw can hear you, Dirprwy Lywydd. It's on mute.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

I think I'm through now. 

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour

Right. Huw Irranca-Davies.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, beyond COVID-19, we're still facing a climate emergency, we have a biodiversity crisis, we have underlying deep social and economic inequality, we have companies that are not as ethical as others and do not pay their fair share of taxes, and so on. So, in the building back better, can I ask you to elaborate on this and what it would mean for a different type of Wales socially and economically in future? Would he agree with me that we do have the opportunity because of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, because of the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013, because of our Senedd's vote on climate change, recognising the climate change emergency, to genuinely build back better in Wales—jobs closer to homes, people and places as important as big business? How are we going to do this, Minister? There's a real opportunity here. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:04, 20 May 2020

Well, I would agree entirely with Huw Irranca-Davies that there is an incredible opportunity to do as Andy Burnham has said, to build back better—he coined the phrase. I think it's entirely appropriate in terms of describing some of the ways that Welsh Government has been operating in recent times, including through the economic contract, how we've been promoting responsible business, including some of the groundbreaking legislation that we have here in Wales, including the active travel Act and the well-being of future generations Act. I was able, during the course of the discussion that I had with Mayor Burnham, to highlight some of the unique ways of working in Wales that will enable us to build back better and which, if followed by other Governments, will enable the whole country to build back better as well.

I think some of the exciting work that can be taken forward to ensure that we create a greener, fairer society and a greener, fairer economy includes the work that has been commenced on working smarter, and this ties in with Russell George's question that I didn't have an opportunity to answer in terms of how we might be able to support town centres and high streets. It's our view that behaviours will never revert to how they were in February of this year, and that, once we're through this crisis, behavioural change will lead to more remote working. We need to embrace that, and we could support a wide take-up of remote working if we were to invest in redundant shops in town centres on high streets, offering opportunities for people not necessarily to work from home, but certainly to work closer to home. This could be a great leveller as well for the Welsh economy. It would mean that people wouldn't have to necessarily travel tens upon tens of miles to the larger towns and cities of our country to attend meetings. It would enable town centres to feel more vibrant for us to be able to invest in some of the infrastructure that would also enhance town centres and high streets, including wider pavements, active travel infrastructure.

And I think also, in terms of some of the work that we're looking at doing on the Wales transport strategy, as we build back better, we will of course be investing in more active travel provision, including greener transport solutions. And in terms of some of the ethical employment procedures that we're keen to promote, Huw Irranca-Davies will be aware that we recently announced that we won't be providing economic resilience funding to businesses registered in tax havens. I think it's absolutely vital we do this; if you're not paying into the system, why should you be taking money out of the system ahead of those who have paid their fair share? We want Wales to be seen as a fair, green nation and I'm confident that, through the work that's being undertaken now as part of the recovery, we will be able to achieve that reputation.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour

David, you're muted.

Photo of David Rowlands David Rowlands UKIP

Can I thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon, and also to thank him for his own strenuous efforts during this very, very difficult time? I'd like to also acknowledge the broad spread of interventions by the Welsh Government and, indeed, their implementation in an efficient manner, particularly through the agencies of local government and the Development Bank of Wales. And I think we also want to acknowledge the great part that Business Wales is playing in this in giving such good information to companies out there.

Talking about companies, Minister, the people of Wales are dependent upon many companies making their lives much better during this lockdown, but I'd like to bring your attention to a company that I believe is not doing this and is failing their customers during this crisis. I refer here to customers of SSE, which was previously SWALEC, the electricity supply company. Apparently, the failure of an electricity meter caused a customer to lose their electricity supply. They found it impossible to inform the company of this breakdown. I myself then attempted to contact the company using their website and a number of telephone numbers, including the number given to Western Power specifically for the coronavirus crisis, only to get on repeated occasions the message that the service was not available. There appears to be no emergency number available to SSE customers, or indeed any way of contacting them during an emergency. This customer has been without electricity for some 48 hours. Whilst it's not the case in this instance, this could have been a household where health aids depend on an electricity supply to function and these would have, of course, not worked, possibly putting lives at risk. Do you feel the failure of the company is acceptable in these matters?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:09, 20 May 2020

I thank David Rowlands for his question and also for his very generous and kind comments regarding staff of the development bank and Business Wales. They really do value kind comments such as those that you've made today. They're working in incredibly difficult circumstances, juggling the strains of working from home with the many demands of businesses, and so those generous comments really do go a long way in boosting their morale.

In terms of SSE, Dirprwy Lywydd, I must declare an interest as I am a customer of SSE, and I have been receiving regular texts through the crisis. But, in regard to the level of service that David Rowlands has highlighted and the disappointment about being unable to contact SSE, if the company has not heard what David has highlighted this afternoon by the end of this week, then we'll certainly chase the company up and ensure that they are responding to customer concerns because, as David says, it's absolutely vital that people are able to access utility support services in a timely way and in an appropriate way during the crisis. 

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 3:11, 20 May 2020

In England, small bed-and-breakfast businesses are already eligible for a business grant, but the Welsh Government still excludes these businesses in Wales. A fortnight ago, the finance Minister told me you look forward to making an announcement, but you failed to do so today. How, therefore, do you respond to desperate bed-and-breakfast businesses in north Wales asking me to try and get answers from you now, or they will otherwise have to decide whether to cease trading this month?

A fortnight ago the Welsh Government announced that small charities within the retail, leisure and hospitality sectors will receive a £10,000 COVID-19 business grant. Today the Business Wales website is still saying,

'More details on how to apply will be on the website shortly.'

What is your response, therefore, to the charities and social businesses telling me they have numerous bills to pay and hope this financial help may come sooner rather than later?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:12, 20 May 2020

Well, can I first of all say that the UK Government's announcement regarding small bed-and-breakfasts that pay council tax is based on an extra £617 million, of which I believe we have not seen a consequential, and so trying to replicate a scheme of that nature in Wales without UK Government funding would not be affordable. Perhaps Mark Isherwood could convey his disappointment about the lack of the resources that have been available to Westminster. However, I can confirm to bed-and-breakfast operators that, if they are VAT registered and employ people, they are eligible for the economic resilience fund, and they will be eligible for the second phase of the economic resilience fund. As I said in response to others and as I outlined in my statement, we're determined to make sure that we take the opportunity of the second phase of the economic resilience fund to establish a bursary—a hardship bursary—to capture any individuals or businesses that risk collapsing as a result of coronavirus. But, as I also said to other contributors, our financial resource is finite, and we have to use that money to keep businesses alive where it is a sole or majority income for the owners and for their employees. We won't be able to support all leisure businesses, I am afraid. We have to prioritise money to those businesses that need it the most. 

In terms of social businesses, they are also eligible for the economic resilience fund and, indeed, I believe more than 1.5 per cent of awards have been made to social businesses—higher than the proportion of social businesses as a total of the economy as a whole, demonstrating our commitment to that particular sector. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 3:13, 20 May 2020

Minister, can I thank you for your statement today and in particular the indication that the economic resilience fund will be reopened up in mid June, as there are many organisations in my constituency that have failed to actually get there so far, but they are looking for that to be reopened. It's very much welcomed. 

I had a cross-party group meeting on steel on Monday, and I'm very pleased that you commented upon steel in your statement, but the employers and the trade unions were both expressing deep concern that Westminster Government appear to be giving the perception that Wales was expendable. Can you reassure me, and the steel workers in my community, that you will fight for steel in Wales, and you will ensure—not just ask the Government, but you will demand—that the UK Government actually protect the steel industry as we come out of the recovery, because we'll be facing global challenges and competition from Europe, where the level playing field of Europe is actually better for Europeans than it is for the UK industry?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:14, 20 May 2020

Well, can I thank Dai Rees for his question and for the opportunity he gave my officials to be part of the recent steel round-table discussions as part of a cross-party group? We raise every single week in our quadrilateral calls—myself and other Ministers from the other devolved administrations—the need to support the steel sector in the United Kingdom, recognising that it's a sector important to our national security.

There are discussions taking place between the UK Government and Tata regarding further potential support. The nature and details of these discussions are a matter for the UK Government and Tata, but I can assure Dai Rees today, and the thousands of workers employed by Tata and other steel businesses in Wales and across the UK, that the Welsh Government is standing behind them, that we will continue to press the UK Government to offer the appropriate and sufficient resource in order to overcome this current crisis, and that we are demanding that long-term changes are made, in particular regarding the volatile and high price of energy for the sector, so that it can emerge from the crisis in the best possible condition so that those thousands of people who had uncertainty about their future employment prospects before coronavirus have far more certainty that they will be employed in the sector in the years to come as we emerge from this terrible pandemic.

Photo of Jayne Bryant Jayne Bryant Labour 3:16, 20 May 2020

Thank you for your statement, Minister. I'm really pleased that you have mentioned Mental Health Awareness Week. The Intellectual Property Office is one of the largest employers in Newport and has been leading the way on mental health and well-being. Their vision is to be an organisation where mental health issues are widely understood and destigmatised, and where mental health and well-being are promoted. For example, they've started a virtual mindfulness course with Bangor University, a new initiative to contact staff who are new to the office, who live alone or who are first-time homeworkers, and virtual tea points and fitness sessions through desk yoga or group activities from home.

COVID-19 is likely to change how nearly every workplace operates. Social distancing and remote working have both their benefits and their challenges. What discussions has the Minister had with businesses and public sector workplaces on how they can adapt to ensure that the duty of care to their employees' well-being is not forgotten in any workplace setting, no matter how big or small, and how can the Welsh Government help to promote and share the good practice so that everyone has the opportunity to benefit?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:17, 20 May 2020

Well, can I begin by thanking Jayne Bryant for the nature of the question? The mental health of the nation is not good right now, and that's to say the least. I don't think many people have experienced such a traumatic time outside bereavement or the break-up of a relationship. This is a major issue for the nation's health. We're utilising the economic contract to encourage more responsible business behaviour.

We went into coronavirus with hundreds of economic contracts in place. The number of economic contracts that we will have secured once we come out of the crisis will have increased by more than 1,000 per cent. As part of that contract—there are only four points to it—a business has to demonstrate how it is improving the mental health of its workforce. We've seen from those businesses that have signed up to the economic contract to date incredible creativity, innovation and responsibility in improving their workers' mental health. I'm keen to go on working in collaboration with organisations such as Mind Cymru to promote schemes such as Time to Change to ensure that, as we emerge from coronavirus, the well-being of our nation is at least as important a consideration as the wealth of our nation, and that the mental health of people across Wales is improved dramatically and swiftly as we come out of the pandemic.

Photo of Neil McEvoy Neil McEvoy Independent 3:19, 20 May 2020

Minister, I asked you—. Well, I've been trying to get answers since 6 April. We asked for a meeting with you on 10 May—we asked for a 15-minute slot during any time of the 24 hours. This is about play centres, which, for some reason, officials are not supporting—they're not being classified as leisure businesses. These businesses are going to go to the wall unless they're supported. So, the very simple question is: will you please ensure that play centres, which provide a really valuable function in our communities—will you ensure that play centres are supported, please?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:20, 20 May 2020

Can I thank Neil McEvoy for his question? This is a question that's also been raised by others, particularly in regard to some of the soft play centres as well that exist and that are very popular. The economic resilience fund is applicable to play centres and the second round of the fund will, of course, be open to them as well.

Photo of Lynne Neagle Lynne Neagle Labour

Minister, can I thank you for meeting with me and Nick Thomas-Symonds MP recently to discuss the 200 proposed job losses at Safran in Cwmbran? The situation remains extremely worrying for the workforce there. I and Nick Thomas-Symonds MP are trying to get another meeting with the management of the company, so far without success. I wonder whether you would agree with me that, when communities are faced with substantial job losses, it is crucial that the leadership of companies engage both with elected representatives and with the trade unions they are members of, in this case Unite the Union. Can I also ask, when we're looking at funding for companies, going forward, when resources are so precious, what you will do to make sure that a good approach to social partnership and trade union working is incorporated into the requirements for those companies? Thank you. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:21, 20 May 2020

Can I thank Lynne Neagle both for her question and for the opportunity to discuss the situation at Safran in Cwmbran very recently, along with Nick? I would urge the company to meet with elected representatives without delay.

It's absolutely vital that, in a time of crisis, employers communicate clearly with their workforce and with elected Members and with the communities that they're based in in order to avoid unnecessary anxiety and, indeed, panic, because that's what I'm picking up in Cwmbran at the moment regarding future employment prospects. It's absolutely vital that engagement does take place in a meaningful and transparent way, and that involves as well the trade unions.

I can assure Lynne that, as part of our roll-out of the economic contract—I've already mentioned that mental health is part of the criteria for the economic contract—other elements of the contract concern fair work. And, of course, we set up the Fair Work Commission to make recommendations on how to improve standards of employment in Wales, and we'll be ensuring that, during the next iteration of the economic contract, we're more stretching in what we expect from employers in terms of engagement with trade unions and with the workforce in general, and that they take full responsibility for employees during downturns and during a crisis of the sort that we're experiencing right now.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 3:23, 20 May 2020

The three groups of businesses that I wanted to ask you about include children's play centres, social enterprises and those small businesses that aren't registered for VAT and don't necessarily pay business rates, who really are the lifeblood of local economies and are the people that we need to invest in, both to maintain our social infrastructure and to ensure that they have the best possible chance to recover from the disruption we're witnessing at the moment. Can you confirm—and I think you already have in some of your answers today—that all three of these gaps that currently exist will be filled when you reopen the economic resilience fund?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 3:24, 20 May 2020

Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm pleased to be able to confirm that all three will be offered support, obviously provided that they meet the eligibility criteria. As sectors, they will be eligible to apply for funding, yes.

Photo of Ann Jones Ann Jones Labour

Thank you very much, Minister.