Item 6 on the agenda this afternoon is a statement by the Minister for Housing and Local Government on homelessness, and I call on the Minister for Housing and Local Government, Julie James.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Preventing and ending homelessness in all its forms is a priority for this Government. Ensuring no-one was left without accommodation and support during this emergency made that priority all the more urgent. In March, at the start of the lockdown, I took early action to provide an additional £10 million of funding and clear guidance on how people should be sheltered and supported. I am proud of our response in Wales; the decisive and compassionate action taken by Welsh Government and local authorities, in partnership with health, third sector, registered social landlords and voluntary organisations, to bring people in from the streets has undoubtedly saved lives.

Our collective efforts have made sure that everyone was included in the measures designed to protect people and communities. More than 800 people have been provided emergency accommodation and support since the lockdown began. Many were previously sleeping on our streets, others were destitute because they had no recourse to public funds, and many were hidden homeless, living precariously as sofa surfers or in unsuitable temporary accommodation.

Local authorities have supported people facing homelessness into safe and stable accommodation, perhaps for the first time in their lives, and have helped people to start to build trust in services they have never, or rarely, engaged with before, and all in just a few short weeks. The response to this emergency has brought us closer together in many ways, recognising our shared common purpose, but also closer to achieving our vision of making homelessness in Wales rare, brief and non-repeated.

We are acutely aware that providing temporary accommodation is not ending homelessness. It does provide us with a unique opportunity to harness the creativity, innovation, collaboration and willingness to work differently to make a long-term, sustainable and fundamental change to homelessness services in Wales. It also provides us with a unique opportunity to transform people’s lives.

We cannot fall back from the huge progress we have made. We must work to ensure that people facing homelessness continue to be protected from the virus, that they are included in any continued or new public health protection measures introduced, and that no-one is forced to return to the streets or any other form of homelessness. I announced last week additional funding of up to £20 million, revenue and capital, to support the next phase of our response to homelessness in the context of COVID-19.

We are asking every local authority in Wales to prepare a phase 2 plan that sets out how they will ensure that no-one need return to the street, focusing on innovation, building and re-modelling to transform the accommodation offer across Wales. I have today published a framework document to set clear expectations and assist local authorities and their partners in developing their phase 2 plans. The framework document is based firmly on the recommendations I received from the homelessness action group just before lockdown. I am once again very grateful for their expert input and their ongoing engagement in this work.

We are not just asking others to reform the way they work; we are reforming our ways of working as well. We have gained enormously from the close working with local authorities that my officials have been undertaking during this first phase. I know authorities have positively welcomed the closer engagement and support; it has helped to quickly identify and resolve issues, and is informing better policy development. We intend to learn and build on this closer working in the next phase, assisting in the development of the plans, and ensuring we can quickly begin to implement them from July onwards.

This support will also include a series of engagement events to support local authorities and their partners. I took part in the launch event last week and was heartened by the positive response, and to hear of the innovative, multi-agency work and planning already under way in some areas across Wales.

Our collective aim is to ensure that everyone we have brought in to temporary accommodation is supported into long-term accommodation. This requires a collective effort. As I have said on many occasions, homelessness is not solely a housing issue; it is a public service issue and requires a cross-public service response. We aim to transform our whole approach to homelessness provision so that those who present as homeless each and every day experience a system focused on real prevention.

In this next phase, I expect to see creativity, partnership and a willingness to invest in these programmes, which will bring long-term savings and benefits to our public services, as well as the potential to transform the lives of the people involved. Innovation, remodelling and building must form the bedrock of how we address, prevent and end homelessness for good in Wales. 

I set out last year in our revised homelessness strategy our aim to move away from temporary accommodation solutions and to adapt a rapid rehousing approach—adopt, I should say, a rapid rehousing approach. We have an opportunity to move more quickly to implement this strategy. In this next phase, we are asking local authorities to commit to and plan how to rapidly move away from the use of night shelters and floor space and approaches where significant resource, particularly from the voluntary sector, is required to support people sleeping rough.

We are asking that they prioritise rapid rehousing and long-term plans, backed up by better quality emergency provision. Our focus is on quickly supporting people back into permanent housing, providing high-quality and dignified interim options and being clear that street services are prioritised for professional assertive outreach focused on resolving homelessness. This next phase is not only about ensuring no-one need return to sleeping rough, but is also about transformation.

This plan is rightly ambitious. It challenges us all to think, plan and work differently. The new investment I have announced to support this plan clearly reflects our commitment as Welsh Government to lead and invest in what we believe in. It will also require local authorities and their partners to invest, using existing funding and grants, and leverage borrowing. This is investment for the long term.

The last few weeks have shown us how much greater than the sum of our parts we can be when we work together. I am truly excited about the opportunity we have before us. It will be a challenge, but based on what we have achieved together thus far, I am confident that we can now make a significant step change towards achieving our goal of ending homelessness in Wales. Diolch.

Can I start by placing on record the Welsh Conservative Party's appreciation of the progress that's been made in ending, to all intents and purposes, rough-sleeping? We're pleased that this has been very successful in Wales, with 800 people now moved into temporary accommodation. Many of them would have been on the streets. And I note also that similar progress has been made in England. I make this remark just to remind everyone that even in a deep crisis, new ways of thinking, and new priorities, and new forms of compassion come to the surface. And this is certainly one, and I'm pleased that we can say in Wales that we have genuine achievements to build upon. 

My first question is that I just want to look at the issue of arrears and evictions, because, unfortunately, once evictions are made permissible in law again, which may happen this month or it may happen in the autumn depending on the decision taken by the Master of the Rolls, of course, this could cause a considerable increase in homelessness and even people going back to the streets. A Tenant Participation Advisory Service survey published last week, Minister, found that two thirds of private renters knew where to go to get help if they had problems with arrears, while only a quarter of social tenants knew where to go for that sort of support and information. So, I would ask you to look at this, because it is a bit curious that the deficiency is so heavy in terms of social tenants, and you would have expected them to be more aware of the sources of help. 

And, also, can I refer to the recent calls by Chartered Institute of Housing Cymru in terms of evictions—I think you may have had sight of this—that we need in Wales a national plan to tackle evictions? Not all the levers can be controlled by us because of the changes in law, but we're going to have to deal with this. And they're calling for a repayment plan for arrears, spread over two years, so we have a plan that can help people in that situation. And then, if landlords sign up to that sort of scheme of spreading payments for two years, there would be no evictions. It does seem to me as quite a constructive way forward, but I think we would like to know what is your current evaluation of where we will be in terms of evictions, and whether we are likely to see some extension of the current moratorium for instance.

Thank you, David, and I very much value the cross-party way we've been able to work in this regard. I do think that the plan for Wales is one that we broadly share across all parties in Wales, and that's one of the reasons we've been able to do what we've been able to do because we've been collaborative across all sectors. And it does really prove what we can do when we work together. 

But there are some concerns. Obviously, rent arrears is one of them. One of the things that I agreed with our social housing partners in Wales when we agreed the rent policy for social housing in Wales—seems like a decade ago but was only actually about 13 weeks ago—was that they would not evict people into homelessness for rent arrears or any other thing. We'd just started to put that plan in action when the lockdown came. We are continuing to work with our registered social landlords and our councils to make sure that that plan stays in place. And as part of that plan, what we will be doing is ensuring that any tenant who faces rent arrears and would be facing an eviction path as a result of that—and there are various complexities in the law I know you're well familiar with, but there's a mandatory ground for eviction, and so on; some complexities I won't go into here—that we work with those tenants, in a pre-action protocol, so that, before any eviction processes can be contemplated, a full understanding of that person's financial circumstances are undertaken and what their ability to repay any arrears looks like and what their ability to sustain their tenancy looks like, and any help that can be given with that, including in certain circumstances for social landlords in Wales write-off of the rent arrears in particular individual circumstances. I want to emphasise that that's not a blanket policy, for obvious public policy reasons, but we want to understand how each individual has ended up where they've ended up, and to understand what support they would need to get back into credit. And that would of course include repayment over two years, and so on—I agree that that's certainly amongst the mix of things that would need to be looked at.

You're quite right, of course, in saying that we await the Master of the Rolls' decision on whether that pre-action protocol will be put in place for private sector rent evictions. We've made our views very clear to the UK Government, and I remain very hopeful that that will be a course of action that will occur. And, in any event, we will be working very hard with our registered landlords here in Wales—as you know, we have a very good relationship with them, and we're in contact with them in a way that is unique; because of Rent Smart Wales, we know who everybody is—to put a voluntary pre-action protocol in place, even if the court doesn't put a mandatory one in place, so that the vast majority of tenants will receive that service anyway.

I was very interested to hear what you said about not understanding sources of support. I'm quite surprised by that—I'd like to see where that came from. And we'd certainly like to take that up with our councils and registered social landlords, because it's very much part of the way that we oversee their activity—that they provide that kind of targeted tenant support, that should mean that their tenants do know where that support comes from. So, I'd be really grateful to have a look in more detail at the information you have there, to find out what we can do to put that right.

Thank you for that answer, Minister. It's from TPAS Cymru, the survey, which I think had 500 respondents—it was quite a high number. But I can certainly give you that reference.

I wonder if I could just clarify the expenditure position, and I do this simply so that we can have a full understanding. I'm not in any way sceptical that the resources won't match the ambition, because I genuinely think there is a determination to see the end of rough-sleeping and homelessness. But you made an announcement in early March of an increase of £10 million, and then last week another increase of £10 million, so the total amount of additional expenditure that's been announced during the lockdown now stands at a total of £20 million. I think sometimes you talk about £10 million here and then an additional £20 million, and I think the First Minister nearly slipped into this when he was talking in terms of £30 million more being spent. But I think the actual figure of the envelope is £20 million. If not, could you clarify that? The UK Government, in making similar increases in expenditure—and I'm not going to get into a comparison; it's very difficult to make it—have emphasised that they're aiming for a 37 per cent increase in revenue spending on support services for vulnerable tenants, and that's going to be a key way of keeping those in emergency accommodation at the moment, as they move into more stable housing, keeping them in that situation so they don't fall back and then end up in the streets again. I just wondered if you have a similar view.

And I welcome the phase 2 plans that now are going to be required from local authorities, and the emphasis on a rapid rehousing approach. I think that is right. But can I also point to a call by the National Residential Landlords Association, where they commend the Newport scheme, which offers six months' guaranteed rental and any repairs to be undertaken if landlords sign up to schemes where homeless people would be put into their property. And they're saying that perhaps we could make that a national plan. And it does seem that the Newport scheme has worked very well, and may be a very constructive way forward that uses the resources of the private sector, which are so extensive in providing rental accommodation, as we know.

Yes, thank you. So, on the expenditure, sorry if there is some confusion, but there are two lots of £10 million revenue—so, the £10 million original revenue spend, and then an additional £10 million revenue spend in this second phase. But there's also £10 million of capital. So, it's £30 million, if you include the capital—£20 million revenue and £10 million capital. So, I think that's where the confusion is coming from. So, it's a £30 million envelope, but £20 million of it is revenue, just to be really clear. We are expecting—. The reason for the mix is because the capital leverages, other schemes and the revenue, obviously, provide support for borrowing and a number of other schemes. So, we deliberately put the mix in play. So, I hope that does clarify that. 

Obviously, when we see the plans coming forward, we'll be able to work more closely with local authorities and other partners at exactly how that funding will be working, but we wanted to make sure that they could plan, knowing that there was support for that in place and that that wouldn't be a barrier to making the plans in the first place.

In terms of other routes, yes, I'm aware of the Newport scheme—I absolutely commend it. We will be looking to roll out several of those schemes right across Wales. We've also been running a scheme in a couple of local authorities where we take over a private rented house for five years, promising the landlord the local housing allowance for that whole period and then returning the house to them in the condition in which we received it or better.

Sorry, I got muted for some reason.

No, you're okay. Carry on.

I was just going to say, that would be very much part of the mix and we expect that kind of thing to feature in the plans as we go forward.

Okay, thank you. Delyth Jewell.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. We also welcome the announcement—

Sorry, we can't hear you. Sorry. Can somebody sort Delyth's mike out, please? Try again.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, fine.

We welcome the announcement about eradicating homelessness. I think one of the positives that could come from this crisis is the realisation that housing is a right for life and not just an emergency stop during a pandemic. I would also really welcome the constructive way that you've worked, Minister, across parties in approaching this crisis. The crisis has also shown that homelessness has been a political choice, not an inevitability. No more can anyone be criticised for saying that 10-year plans to end homelessness are an insulting ambition.

Now some may balk at the sums of money that we're talking about, but I'd say to them, and I'm sure you'd agree with me on this, Minister, that this investment will lead to considerable savings for our public services—you referred to that in your statement—and not to mention a better life for countless people in the future. I would ask, Minister, if you wish you had perhaps allocated the sums to ending homelessness a lot sooner.

But, looking to the future, it seems that the private rented sector is likely to see an increase in demand, where Rightmove is saying that the demand for lettings is up 22 per cent. Now, that is presumably largely in England, where the restrictions are not as severe, but this may, of course, result in the temptation for landlords to evict current occupants or persuade them to leave so that they could put the rent up for other tenants. So, could you confirm, Minister, whether you'll be extending the no-eviction period of taking no further action, to prevent this further after we have continued to focus on prevention of homelessness? I appreciate what you've just said to David Melding, but I just wonder if you could confirm how long you hope that support will be in place and, indeed, that that will be something that won't be time limited.

Yes, obviously, what the crisis has done is it has made it possible for us to do things that we would always have wanted to do, but it has made it possible to do it in ways that we wouldn't have been able to access. So, for example, in some areas in Wales, we've taken over private sector bed-and-breakfasts or hotels or student accommodation that wasn't needed because of the crisis, which wouldn't have been available to us in 'ordinary circumstances'. So, what we've done is we've made the best of a terrible situation and we've capitalised on some of those opportunities, and that's allowed us to things much more quickly than would ever have been possible in normal circumstances. But you're right—it has proved that it can be done, and what it's done is it's proved to everyone that it can be done. And so people are very determined, and I feel sure that they will be able to put the plans forward for the next phase because we now know that it can be done. It's not just theoretical, and that makes a huge difference. So, I'm very optimistic that we will be able to work in that collaborative way right across the piece.

In terms of the prevention from evictions—in terms of the legal prevention from evictions—I'm currently considering with my officials extending the three-month period that we currently have. There's a possibility of extending it under the coronavirus Act and the regulations. Obviously that's in the context of the pandemic. So, we're looking to extend it while the pandemic carries on, because that's basis of those powers, and, in the meantime, of course, we're looking at the Renting Homes (Amendment) (Wales) Bill that we want to get through, if at all possible, in this Senedd term, which would put that in for the longer term. But it does require the two, and it's not possible, as I understand it, to extend the coronavirus regulations once the pandemic is over. So, it's just not possible to do that. So, we hope that we can get the amendment Bill through in time for that not to have a gap in it, but we have to do both of those things simultaneously. And I'm sure we'll get a lot of collaboration from the Senedd in doing that as well. I know that there's a shared agenda there, too.

And then, in terms of the private sector, as I say, we've a range of actions going on with private sector landlords. But you will know from our conversations that we're very dependent on the UK Government making sure that the local housing allowance does not go back down to where it was before, because, in that case, people will not be able to afford an average accommodation in most places in Wales, and that's made a significant difference to the market forces that you mentioned as part of that. 

Thank you for that, Minister. A further issue I wanted to raise was the support that's offered to people with no recourse to public funds. Now, that status is a legacy of Tony Blair's attempt to appease the Daily Mail all those years ago, and it has left a long and bloody legacy. We know that Shelter Cymru and others have been writing about the problems it's caused migrant women since at least 2010. Now, unfortunately that status is still in place, and people with no recourse to public funds have been unable to access universal credit, the furlough scheme and other support services. So, could you assure us, Minister, that your measures to end homelessness will not ignore the plight of that group of people.

And, finally, I'd like to ask about the more general long-term lessons that we can learn from this pandemic. We know that poorer communities have been hit harder by the crisis. And one reason we can probably surmise about this is the closer proximity of houses in poorer areas, the risk of overcrowding and, of course, poorer conditions of the houses making underlying health conditions more prevalent. Minister, will you be looking at changes to the planning system in the near future to address these factors so that future housing estates can be made pandemic proof? 

So, on the recourse to public funds, Delyth, you'll know that we've already written to the UK Government regarding the changes required to ensure that nobody is returned to the streets, including people with no recourse to public funds. We, of course, have housed and supported people with no recourse to public funds, as a result of the public health legislation that the pandemic has allowed us to act under. So, in order to protect public health, we have to able to protect individuals and, therefore, we have the power to do it.

Again, once the pandemic is over, we will not be able to use that legislation, and so it is imperative that the UK Government look at that. We've emphasised two things: the common humanity of that and the need to treat everybody as a human being; and secondly, actually, if you really wanted to do it on a financial basis, there just aren't very many people—you're not talking about very much money and that makes it all the worse if people won't consider doing it. So, anything that any individual Member of the Senedd or party in the Senedd wants to do to back us up in writing to the UK Government, I'd very much welcome that. I know that we've discussed that previously, and I would very much like to be able to do that. 

And then, in terms of the rest of it, there are three bits on the supply side. So, on the state of the current housing market, you'll know that we've worked very hard on the Welsh housing quality standard, and that was thought to be impossible when we put it in place, and indeed we've met it, and even in the pandemic we've managed to get to the target that we had. We are changing Part L, as they're called, building regulations, and they'll be coming in front of the Senedd soon, so that new build is built like that. And then there's a huge issue about retrofit in the private sector. So, we will be addressing that.

Unfortunately, the pandemic has meant that we will lose some of the legislation and statutory instruments that we were hoping to bring forward in this Assembly term. I am very happy to work with all parties to make sure that we can put anything that we can all agree on in all manifestos so that officials can carry on working on it in the full knowledge that whoever forms the next Welsh Parliament Government will want to take that forward, and that will give some certainty to that piece of work.

Thank you for your statement, Minister, and I welcome the plans to end homelessness. But, Minister, can you confirm that the plans will apply to everyone who is homeless during this pandemic, and not just those who are in emergency accommodation?

I have been speaking to veterans' groups in recent weeks who are concerned that many homeless veterans are falling through the cracks because they are simply sofa surfing. Obviously, this is not ideal from a public health perspective in this current pandemic. Minister, will you liaise with groups, such as the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association, to ensure that all homeless veterans are provided long-term accommodation?

If there are any positives to come out of this pandemic, ending rough sleeping surely has to be at the very top of the list. Of course, if we are to tackle homelessness in a lasting and meaningful way, we have to move to a functioning housing market as quickly as possible. So, Minister, what discussions have you had with public health officials about the safest way to restore a functioning housing market in Wales?

Also, may I ask, what assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact COVID-19 is having on future housing supply, and what steps, if any, are you taking to mitigate them?

We can't return to the pre-pandemic housing market until a vaccine is in place, but we can make adjustments to make building, buying and selling homes as safe as is possible. Social distancing will have an impact on the speed with which new homes can be built, so, have you discussed with house builders in Wales ways to offset the delays, such as operating multiple sites at once to accommodate the workforce?

The virus is also impacting the rental market, with many landlords unable to find tenants for their properties, or not receiving rental income due to tenants being out of work. So, what consideration have you given to waiving council tax on empty properties for the duration of this pandemic?

And finally, Minister, local government employees have a key role to play as contact tracers as part of the Welsh Government's track, trace and protect scheme. Are you confident that this new role will not leave shortages in other areas, particularly environmental health? Thank you.

Thank you for that series of questions. I'll do my best to cover them all. Certainly we do not want to leave any group of people out, and we have been very successful in not doing so during the first stage of the homelessness action that we have taken. As I said very specifically in my statement, the number of people that we've housed includes people who were not rough sleeping but who were in very precarious accommodation—temporary accommodation if you like, 'sofa surfers' as they're known.

We don't have information on the number of veterans included because we don't collect it in that way, but we're not aware that there are any people left out from that, and we have been running a campaign to make sure that people who are sofa surfing recognise themselves as homeless and come forward. And we've been very deliberately doing that in order to make sure that we don’t face a deluge at the end of the pandemic. And we have had a steady stream of people coming forward to receive help throughout this crisis. It wasn’t a fixed number at the beginning who then got housed—we've had people presenting on a daily basis throughout the pandemic that we've been able to accommodate as a result of working so closely and in collaboration with a number of partners, including our local authorities—well, primarily our local authorities. I mean, those include veterans, of course, but they include other people presenting: victims of domestic abuse, people who are displaced by family or a relationship breakdown and a number of other things—the things that cause homelessness in the first place. Those things have continued throughout the pandemic and our partners have stepped up to the plate of providing accommodation for all of those groups, I can assure you, including veterans. And, of course, we do work very closely with a number of veterans' groups. My colleague, Hannah Blythyn, is the Minister for the armed forces and she has a range of very regular meetings with a series of veterans groups, and I myself have met a fair number of them as well; we're very concerned to understand the specific circumstances.

In terms of the housing supply, it is at this point in time possible to move in Wales if you need to do so because of any emergency circumstances or if, for example, your sale would fall through if you did not. I've answered a very large number of enquiries from people who haven't understood that, so I'd just like to make that very clear. In the next phase of review—so, as you know, we review the regulations every three weeks and we begin to work on them the second the last review is over—we're looking to see what else we can do in the housing market around things like being able to view empty properties, allow people who want to find a tenant for an empty property to do that and so on. We're going, probably, I think—well, the review's underway, so it's impossible to say for sure—but we're probably, I think, going to stop short of allowing people to view tenanted or occupied properties for obvious reasons, as there have been a number of issues across the border with that. But I take your point, Caroline. Obviously, we want the market to work.

I'm also very concerned for renters who find themselves in circumstances where they can't afford their rent any longer and they would like to find somewhere else that they may be able to afford, to be able to facilitate that as soon as we possibly can. And I'll take this opportunity to say that, throughout this crisis, we've worked very hard with all our social landlords to make sure that they turn around what are called 'voids', so empty properties, as fast as possible to make sure that they're available for permanent housing for people who need that housing, whether they're coming through the homelessness stream or because they're tenants who are looking to move to different and more suitable accommodation. So, we've certainly been doing that.

In terms of the housing supply, again, construction has been allowed as long as you're able to socially distance throughout this period and much construction has gone on. We certainly have seen a lot of social residential house landlords, so RSLs and councils continue with their house building and we know that a number of SMEs continue to build for that market because that gives them a cashflow that they would otherwise not have had and we've been encouraging that. I'm very happy to do that. And, of course, we speak very regularly to the house builders associations around their needs in this crisis and how we can keep that part of the market going. 

And then, in terms of our route out of this crisis, of course, all of you will have heard me talk about the need to ensure a green housing-led recovery and we're very keen to do that to make sure that we build the social housing that we need for the future in Wales so that we make sure that homelessness is, indeed, rare, brief and unrepeated. 

Minister, as you know, the committee that I chair, the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee has taken a particular interest in rough sleeping and Welsh Government policy. Indeed, we've done two reports in this Assembly, one at the end of last year on specialist services with regard to mental health and substance misuse, and one the year before more generally. So, having given that priority and focus to rough sleeping as a committee, it's very pleasing indeed to see this progress at a time of crisis, as you've stated, and it does show that even in the midst of responding to such a crisis, it is possible to salvage some positives from the general misery, as it were, and it's really, really important to do that to show that there is some room for optimism. So, I do think that you and Welsh Government deserve a lot of congratulations for this funding and this policy, working together with key partners such as the local authorities, the health sector, the third sector, registered social landlords and voluntary organisations. I think it really has been a team effort and I think that, again, reflects one of the challenges and more positive responses through the pandemic, which has seen organisations, communities and sectors pulling together for the common good, recognising the scale of the progress that we need to make and the challenge that we face. So, it really is very, very good to see all of that. As a community, we were looking—

Could you come to a question, please?

Could I just say—I will, Dirprwy Lywydd—as a committee, we're looking for that sort of preventative approach—housing first. We met with the action group, and we were looking for the sort of corporation rights that—[Inaudible.]—achieve. So, what I'd really like to know in terms of follow-up planning and to avoid slipping back, because people in Newport tell me they're so pleased to see the progress made, but are obviously very concerned that we don't see any slipping back, we know that we're going to have an economic crisis and we're going to have great difficulties with public spending, Minister. So, in looking at how we avoid any slippage and, as the saying goes, build, act better for the future, are you really looking at the scale of those economic and public spending issues that we're going to face, and are you confident that, with your announcements, with a new approach, with the funding, we will be able to sustain the progress made?

Yes, John, I'm very happy to say that, because of the extraordinary amount of work that we've been able to do in the collaborative way that the committee had recommended in the first place and we've now seen go into action as a result of accepting the recommendations of the housing action group—I know you had a good conversations with those as well as the committee—that I'm very confident that we will be able to do it, because people have seen what's possible and they are re-energised in knowing that it can be done if we all work together. And, as we come out of this pandemic, we will want to look at economic stimulus and so on and you heard me talking about a green housing-led recovery, and we can do that.

I haven't been able to answer all the questions I've been asked today from all Members as Members had a large number of questions; it's just good to see the enthusiasm. One of the things that we're very keen to do, for example, is make sure that using modern methods of construction, as it's called, with Welsh timber and Welsh supply chains, we can put up houses that we know work because they came through our innovative housing programmes, so they're tried and tested; beautiful carbon-neutral houses that are really quick to construct, constructed in small plants that employ local people across Wales, so it provides employment—high-skilled employment, good employment. It also provides housing, it also provides a use for our forests, it provides a way of sustainable forestry, which is good. It pushes every button you can think of and, of course, it provides the housing that we need to ensure that people have secure accommodation going forward into the future, and that that accommodation is not only secure, it's also beautiful and carbon neutral. What's not to like?

So, I am absolutely sure that we can do this and I am sure about that because all of our partners believe it too and have bought into that process, and there's a consensus across this Senedd. So, actually, together, we really are greater than the sum of our parts, and I really do think we will be able to do this in the future.

Thank you for the statement. I would like to place on record my thanks to our local authority, Conwy County Borough Council for their partnership working and immense support given to our homeless here in Aberconwy. We have seen residential units placed in Llandudno and Colwyn Bay to house our very vulnerable homeless and rough sleepers, and they've carried it out in such a speedy manner during this pandemic emergency.

However, I must agree with the Salvation Army that a focus must also be on tackling the reasons why people become homeless in the first instance. So, my questions are: will our local authorities be able to apply for some of the £20 million funding to support proposals for targeting causes of homelessness, as part of your announced phase 2 plans, and also, as the National Residential Landlords Association have highlighted, there are many situations where tenants are now facing huge commitments and struggles to afford their housing. Will you clarify if these current restrictions will not prevent them from sourcing and indeed moving into affordable accommodation at this time?

Yes. All the councils have worked really hard and Conwy is a good example but all the local authorities have worked in collaboration with us. There are innovative methods right across Wales for getting people into decent accommodation. Some of that is temporary, but it's good temporary accommodation. But, obviously, what we need to do now is work to get people into secure, long-term accommodation that they can afford and that they can sustain. And that involves us working with all partners, including support partners. So, that means working with mental health services and substance abuse services and tenancy support services, welfare and support services, and so on, maximising people's income, making sure they have the skills necessary to sustain a tenancy. Four walls and a ceiling is not enough; we all have furniture in our houses and curtains and carpets and stuff like that. People need to have all of the things they need to support themselves in accommodation. And so what's been shown is that that can be done. We can do that, we can wrap the services around them, we can make sure that people come together to support them. And the phase 2 plans that we're asking local authorities to look at look at all of those things, including the support necessary to make people able to sustain those tenancies, and that includes an assessment of their ability to pay for particular types of accommodation, and what needs to be done to maximise that.

You heard me saying earlier that I very much hope the UK Government will keep the local housing allowance level at where it is. The Minister for social services, Thérèse Coffey, did say in one of the meetings I attended that that would be done, but I'd really like to see that confirmed more widely, because that would give people a lot of hope that they would continue to be able to afford it. And then, as you heard me say, Janet, in terms of being able to move to something if you really do find you can't afford where you are, we've been working very hard with people to turn around voids, to make sure that those properties are available, and to make sure that that can happen. In the next phase of the review of the lockdown measures, we are looking to make sure that people can move to empty properties. There's obviously a big problem with viewing properties that are tenanted or occupied, but if they're empty then we're looking to make sure that we free that up as rapidly as possible. I'll just take this point to emphasise the point I made earlier, which is that it is, of course, and always has been, possible to move if circumstances are such that it's an essential move and can't be delayed.

Minister, thank you for your statement today. I've just got some questions around the finer details of what you're able to extrapolate from the data that you do have. For example, are you seeing any unexpected trends or links in terms of characteristics protected under the Equality Act 2010, in terms of those who are currently homeless in Wales? Are there any regional variations that stand out to you in terms of the geography of Wales, too? And, finally, in terms of the duration of the homelessness that we are seeing, what sort of data is emerging around whether the homelessness is mostly on a short or a long-term basis, because, clearly, there are lessons that we can learn from examining the data in such detail?

Thank you, Vikki. We don't have all of the data in quite the way that you suggest, but I can tell you what we do know. So, first of all, the range of people who are homeless is huge. So, we have people who are only recently homeless because of recent family breakdown or domestic violence incidents or some other such, and there are others who have been homeless for a very long time and have entrenched problems and have come into services for the first time ever. As I said in my statement, we need to capitalise on the fact that they now have had contact with those services and we have been able to engage with them, and we can keep them engaged, and that's been a huge step forward. Previously when working with homeless people, it might take as much as nine months for our dedicated outreach worker to make a trust bond with that person so that they will come in and accept services, and we've been able to accelerate that process for nearly everyone. We do have one or two people who we have not been able to reach, but all of those have dedicated outreach workers working with them with a view to making that happen.

One of the characteristics that I can easily tell you about, though, is that homelessness is associated with poverty, because if you have a family or relationship break-up and you're not poor, then you can find yourself another house. So, it is associated most obviously with economic deprivation. And that's what we need to do: we need to make sure that people have their income maximised, that they have access to the right kind of support for maximising that income and getting back into work where that's an issue, or maintaining their work where that's an issue, because being made homeless can mean that you lose your job, which, of course, makes the situation much worse. So, we have worked very hard with a range of charities and third sector organisations and our social landlords and our private landlords to maximise that kind of support, to make sure that people can sustain their tenancy and therefore maximise their economic ability. As I say, we have wraparound services. I've always said that homelessness is not just about housing, it's about all the other services, and I'm absolutely delighted with the way that those services have come together in this crisis to work. In our summit last week we had contributions from people from all of those services and they were all saying how much they had learned from the collaboration that has been possible and how much they're looking forward to taking that forward. 

So, I have a real sense that this is now possible and that people recognise it. So, I really do think that this time we will be able to make a difference in Wales and make sure that homelessness is rare, brief and unrepeated.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I have to say that, as the chair of the cross-party group on the armed forces and cadets, I was a little bit disappointed that in your earlier response to a question on veterans you suggested that the Welsh Government was not collecting data regarding those who've been rehomed during the pandemic and what proportion of those are people from the veteran community. You'll be aware that there's a great deal of good work being done by organisations like Alabaré and their homes for veterans here in Wales. They've got a home just down the road from me here in Colwyn Bay, and they're prepared to do even more, provided they know where the need actually lies.

So, can I ask what work will you do with local authorities now in order to try to track what proportion of those that are currently in temporary accommodation are people from the veteran community, in order that you can engage further with the good organisations like Alabaré that are out there that want to do more and are simply looking for the places in which they can develop these sorts of facilities that they've already established so successfully elsewhere?

Yes, Darren, I'm very happy to work with them. Actually, local authorities already work with a large range of veteran organisations, and, as I said, Hannah has met with a very large number of them. I myself have met with a slightly smaller number of them. So, we're very happy to engage and signpost people to the help that veteran support agencies can supply. And that's a huge range, as you know and as I know. There's a huge range of support, from counselling and collaborative support to simply friendship, to actual accommodation, to a full range of mental health, substance abuse and so on support. So, I'm very grateful to that particular section of the third sector that provides that support.

Local authorities are signposting people who are eligible for that support to them, it's just that we don't centrally collect the data. So, I don't want you to think that we don't care, because we do care, it's just that we haven't seen any need to centrally collect how many people that is. I expect if you asked the local authorities they would know individually. I'm happy to investigate whether it's an easy thing for us to do. I would be reluctant to divert resource into it, but if it's something that we could do relatively easily, I'm certainly happy to look into that. It's just not something we've done centrally at the moment.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute today, and I welcome very much what the Minister has said in her two statements. The COVID crisis has been hard, but there are also many wins, and the temporary eradication of homelessness is one of them.

Local authorities and the third sector have responded brilliantly in very, very challenging circumstances. I note the initial investment of £10 million and now a further investment of £20 million through revenue, taking the total to £30 million. This is most welcome.

I've spoken before in this Chamber about my own experience of sofa surfing and its long-term effects on my life, so I'm so glad to see that your intention is to do all that you can to keep those 800-plus people in accommodation of some sort. It's clear from statistics and waiting lists that there just aren't enough homes to go around. However, COVID might have presented an opportunity to occupy empty B&Bs and student accommodation.

Can I ask you what your plans are for ensuring adequacy of supply once the economy opens back up? Your latest statement proclaims that you want to see creativity, partnership and a willingness to invest in these programmes. Are creativity and partnership not already embedded in this type of service?

The human cost of homelessness is huge, but the preventative spend implications of getting this right will reap rewards across local government, health and the police. I particularly liked your input on sustainable house building—

Can I ask you to come to a question, please?

I've just asked two questions—

Well, I think that's fine, then. Thank you. We'll ask the Minister to comment. You're over your time. Thank you. Minister, can you respond, please?

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Yes, just on the funding, just to be clear: it's £20 million revenue—£10 million in the first place, £10 million in this tranche—and £10 million in capital, and that's additional to the money that we always put into the housing and homelessness services. So, I don't want you to think that that's all there is; that's additional money that goes with the money that we already invest. So, that a substantial sum of money overall.

On the supply side, you're absolutely right, Mandy, the human cost of it is enormous, and there but for the grace of God go all of us, quite frankly. So, we are very keen to make sure that people stay in accommodation. We are working very hard with local authorities—that's what the phase 2 plans will be about. Some of them have people in 'temporary' accommodation that's a lot less temporary and will be able to sustain that for quite some time. But you're quite right that some of them have it in sectors that are empty at the moment, but will obviously want to go back to their core group of clientele once the lockdown comes out. And we're working very hard with those local authorities to make sure that we have move-on accommodation properly. I'm also very anxious, as a result of the housing action group's recommendations, to ensure that move-on isn't something that has to happen more than once, so that people don't have to move lots of times because that's very destabilising. So, we're working very hard to make sure that they can either move straight into secure accommodation or, at the very worst-case scenario, once more.

The other thing is, as I'm sure you heard me saying earlier, we are now working very hard to make sure that we can put up these modern methods of construction—beautiful housing—that came out of our innovative housing programme. It is astonishing how fast that housing can go up. My colleague Jeremy Miles and I recently visited a field hospital that Swansea has put up, and the extent of that and how that was done in 17 weeks has really been inspirational in telling us what we can do in the future to build really decent accommodation that we'd all be proud to be in, as fast as we can go, to make sure that those people get the homes that you and I would both be proud to live in.

Thank you, Minister.