The next item, therefore, is a debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee report on the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the arts sector. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion, Helen Mary Jones.

Motion NDM7337 Helen Mary Jones

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee on the impact of the COVID-19 outbreak on the arts sector laid in the Table Office on 5 June 2020.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. May I begin my contribution to this debate this afternoon by thanking the staff of our committee, the witnesses who contributed to this short inquiry, and my fellow committee members? I think they would all wish me to say that the staff have been exemplary through this very difficult period. I think, when the history of this time comes to be written, the excellent, sterling work of the staff of the Senedd in keeping our democracy going in these very difficult times will deserve at least a chapter of its own. 

The Government of course has some time before it's required to respond to our report, and we're grateful already to the Deputy Minister for the way that he has engaged with the committee and the information that he's provided. But, we wanted to table this motion for debate today because of the urgent nature of the crisis being faced by the arts sector. 

We know, for example, that the Wales Millennium Centre has already announced that it will remain closed until January, placing 250 jobs potentially at risk. And while the support already provided by the arts council has been welcome, and some venues have been able to take advantage of other sources of support such as the job retention scheme, it is clear that it will be some time until all venues can open, and when they can do so it may be hard for them to do so profitably because of social distancing.

We're clear that the arts and the cultural sector will need longer term public support, and this is why we have recommended that the Welsh Government recognises that our major arts organisations may not be financially viable for many years to come and that the Government should be prepared to extend the necessary public funding to ensure their survival. 

It is also why we have recommended that Welsh Government urges the Treasury to review the self-employment income scheme so that freelance workers, who are of course the absolute backbone of the arts sector, do not fall through any gaps in eligibility, and that the Welsh Government lobbies Westminster to continue the job retention scheme and the self-employment income support scheme beyond October for some sectors in which people will not be able to safely return to work. Our arts sector cannot afford to lose the creative innovative people who make it what it is. 

Venues may not be able to open for some time, but they need to be planning now for when they can do so. And this is why we have recommended that Welsh Government provide guidance on reopening by 1 August, to give time for venues to make any adjustments to premises and to working practices in a timely manner. We've also recommended that Welsh Government establishes an entertainment and events working group to enhance Government co-operation and collaboration with the sector. 

And finally, Llywydd, in the field of the arts, as across society, this crisis is an opportunity for us as a nation to rethink and reset. We have seen the social value of the arts throughout this crisis, from innovative online performances from elite companies and individuals—albeit performances that don't raise any revenue, of course, because most of these can't be charged for—to the hospital choirs lifting the spirits of the front-line workers, to children's rainbows adorning our neighbours' windows. Now is the time for us to reaffirm our commitment to the arts, not only for their importance to the economy, though that matters enormously of course, but also for their value in enabling us to explore who we are as individuals and communities and as a nation, and to explore what matters to us. 

And it is also a time for us to reflect on the need for the arts to truly reflect our nation in its full diversity. The Black Lives Matter campaign has led us all to reflect on the under-representation of black and minority ethnic people in our cultural life, and this must be addressed. Now is the time for us to think, to look ahead, and to plan, and that is why we have recommended that the Deputy Minister should work with the sector to set a long-term policy direction that is sustainable, inclusive, and accessible.

We will need a vibrant, diverse and inclusive arts sector as we recover as individuals and communities and as a nation from this unprecedented shock, and that sector can only be sustained and secured at this time with long-term, practical public sector support.

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

I'm very grateful, Dirprwy Lywydd, for the fact that we have been able to table this report today. We very much look forward to Members' contributions, and I look forward to responding later to the debate. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. David Melding.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and can I thank Helen Mary Jones for all her work as the temporary Chair and send my good wishes to Bethan? I don't think it's a reflection on Helen's work at the moment that we'll applaud Bethan's return also, but, in the meantime, the leadership Helen has given to the committee has been instrumental in us continuing our work and producing such an important report this afternoon.

But I do also want to add my thanks to the whole committee team, Deputy Presiding Officer. I think we've all as Members of the Senedd been hugely impressed by the way the Commission staff have worked to ensure that as much of what we do could continues as a legislature, both here in Plenary but also our committee work, and I'm very, very grateful to them in enabling our work to continue.

I think this is such an important area for us to look at. Helen Mary has outlined, in essence, our recommendations, and I completely agree with them. I think it's very important that we push them forward and we see action from the Welsh Government, but also from the UK Government, when we're looking at job retention schemes and how we're going to sustain the whole structure of the arts sector in Wales but also throughout the United Kingdom.

One of the pieces of evidence that I found most insightful is that many of the organisations currently under most pressure as their business model is undermined are those that, over the last 10 years or so, have diversified, increased their commercial income, have increased merchandising, and have been hugely successful and allowed more space for public funds to be devoted to other areas of the artistic community that are really important but don't generate so much income. Helen Mary referred to some of those in terms of the work in public services like hospitals. I think that really is such an important message for us to take forward that we must have a partnership that allows the muscle memory of our great artistic enterprises to be retained, and those who have done so much not to rely on public funds now are turning to us.

As we've heard, there is no prospect of audiences coming back in the size needed to keep the millennium centre going, but also many other theatre venues. Twenty-five per cent, 30 per cent, perhaps, of audience capacity may be delivered with social distance, but it's going to be nowhere near the level that we need in terms of ticket sales of three quarters or more to really ensure that productions can break even and generate funds in terms of providing profits for future investment. So, this is a very, very important time for us.

And also, there's the whole spin-off of those many people who are self-employed but provide services to the artistic community—those who are involved in theatre productions, but also, looking at other aspects of the creative industry, in television and film and other areas. So, we should remember there are many small providers out there who currently find it very difficult to access schemes and are perhaps the most vulnerable—amongst the most vulnerable, anyway—in society in terms of job security.

And again, I think, in terms of telling the nation's story and reimagining the past and what it means to us, how we learn lessons from it, and how we explore the more uncomfortable areas, but also celebrate the great inheritances we have, as well, so that we enjoy life in the future, you know, I think COVID has reminded us of the basic things that are important in terms of the value of life, and the arts are so central to that. And it, I think, would be quite shocking if we do not make that investment now so that when we are through those terrible and testing episode in a year or so, when there is a long-term solution, or at least a means to live with this disease without the lethal effects of it, then we will want this sector to flourish again. If we don't have that, we will be much diminished. And let's remember that Wales has had an absolute boom in the creative industries. It's truly one of our wonderful growth areas, and we will want it to be core to our economic future again and also the way we enjoy life. So, I commend this report with great enthusiasm, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I look forward to the Welsh Government's response. I'm sure that we can see the arts thrive again, as they have in the past, if we make this critical investment now.

Members of the Senedd will know that I'm also determined to advocate for the arts sector in and across Wales, and have long championed in this place and outside of it that the Welsh Government deploy activist measures to stabilise the health of the arts sector, following a decade of UK Government austerity measures. That was the landscape we were in. Since the COVID-19 outbreak has ravaged humanity, we are in a different place again. So, as such, I fully welcome the important and timely piece of work from the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee. Its report into the impact of the COVID-19 outbreak on the arts sector in Wales presents us now here in Wales with some very key issues, underscored by others, including UK Music. It is right that when nations are exposed to a national pandemic and crisis of this scale, the very first duty of Government is to protect its citizens, and I applaud the Welsh Government actions. But it is no hyperbole when I state to you for the record that the arts sector is now in the gravest and most stark danger it has faced to date, and I will take an unusual action as the Labour and Co-operative Member for Islwyn, to quote from a recent leading article from The Times in London, briefly. It stated on 15 June:

'In times of danger and of celebration, live orchestral music provides solace and instils hope. Yet the global pandemic threatens terminal damage to Britain's orchestras. In a letter to The Times today, some of the world's most eminent conductors warn that without a substantial injection of money, Britain's musical organisations may be forced to close amid a precipitous collapse in the economy. Demands on the public finances are pressing, yet emergency aid in this case is not only justified, but as has been stated, is vital for the nation's soul.'

So, there can surely be nobody here in this Senedd who does not wholeheartedly agree with this Welsh Senedd report's first recommendations, namely that the Welsh Government should lobby the UK Government to urge that the self-employed income support scheme continues beyond May 2020, and the job retention scheme continues beyond October 2020, and, too, the self-employed income support scheme is revised to ensure no freelance workers fall through the gaps in eligibility for that scheme.

In 2008, the UK Labour Government bailed out the banks with a massive capital injection. In 2020, the arts sector in Wales and the UK requires a large-scale capital injection of principally UK Government money, followed by Welsh Government's strong support and a clear strategic direction. And I will say that this is not just the opinion of me, a socialist arts/music lover from Islwyn. It is also a qualified opinion of leading conductors and cultural thinkers, international musicians like Nicola Benedetti and Sir Karl Jenkins and Sheku Kanneh-Mason, who all supported my commissioned report, 'Land of Song'.

The Times, in concluding, states:

'The economics will need careful planning, but organisations must be given a breathing space in trying to make this work. If they close, the cultural loss will be irreplaceable, and future generations will not likely forgive those who allowed it.'

Deputy Llywydd, Wales, a land of song famed for its culture, its heritage and its music, faces a cultural reckoning like never before. Future generations of Wales will look to us individually here and collectively in this Welsh Parliament, in this Senedd, at this moment in history, and ask, rightly, 'What did they do to safeguard our nation's precious cultural heritage?' Thank you.

I believe that we need to reassess the support that the Welsh Government can provide to the arts sector in Wales. I accept what some speakers have said on extending the furlough and extending the support for the self-employed, but I also believe that there is more that the Welsh Government could be doing. We are still awaiting an announcement from the Westminster Government on financial support. It's clear that the voice of the Minister for culture in that place—the Conservative Minister for culture—isn't being heard within his own Cabinet, and therefore instead of awaiting that announcement, an announcement that may never come, and any consequentials, I believe that the Welsh Government needs to come up with a specific package of support. I would argue that that should be seen as an investment and that the arts should be a central part of the framework for the COVID recovery that is currently being drawn up by Government.

The performing arts and theatres are suffering greatly, with income from live performances having disappeared, and this is true of national institutions as well as community organisations. The arts are a crucial part of Welsh life. It is part of the Welsh soul, not only historically and culturally, but in our daily lives. The arts have played a central role in helping people to cope with the significant pressures that have come as a result of lockdown, and they can continue to play a central role in our lives. They can assist us to process and express what we're going through during this unprecedented time.

The Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 makes reference to evidence that demonstrates that appreciation of the arts and creativity is beneficial for our economic, environmental, social and cultural well-being. Why not take the opportunity as a result of this crisis to place the arts firmly at the centre of all aspects of our lives, whilst appreciating fully that the arts have a preventative value, a restorative value, an economic value, a social value and a spiritual value? So, I would go further than what's contained within the report. I would today call for the arts to receive support as part of our positive scheme to move forward and out of this COVID crisis, so that the arts can play a central role during this time, as a means for the sector to survive, yes, but also in order for the arts and the creative sector to assist us to understand the situation that we're currently facing and to be a central part of the process of recovery from this pandemic.

Thank you. I now have to call the Minister, and I apologise to those people who are down to speak, but this is only a 30-minute debate. So, I do apologise. I'm now going to call the Minister to respond. No, sorry—not to respond to the debate; this is a committee report. Sorry, Helen. I call the Minister to take part in this debate—Dafydd Elis-Thomas.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. May I first of all express my thanks for the opportunity to respond to a debate on the importance of the arts during a crisis, a position that I fully approve and fully support?

I accept that there's a need for us as a Government to understand that the arts are more than simply another part of Government, and that there are possibilities in using culture and the arts, particularly the performing arts, music, theatre, drama, and so on, as a means of regenerating people's lives during these difficult times. We know from the history of theatre throughout the years and music throughout the years that this can happen.

I also agree with the arguments that have been made on the importance of us calling on the Treasury, and we have done that already. I've written to the Treasury on this issue. But may I say that I don't consider myself to be a lobbier of the Treasury, because we are a Government here in Wales? We don't lobby the Westminster Government, we ask as a right that we should be recognised as a Government in terms of what should happen.

I also accept that there is community and national value to the arts and that therefore the possibilities of moving forward and using the arts is crucial. I don't agree that we need a particular action group to do this, because I think we do have within our national institutions, the arts council and the other arts organisations, the capacity to do this. I do pledge that, after this debate, I will once again look at the priorities that we have set for those organisations. 

May I say how pleased I was to hear robust talk about the black and ethnic minority community here in Wales? We're all minorities in different ways, and I don't think that we have properly understood in the past that the BAME community in our nation is so important for us. If I can speak quite clearly on this, it's as important as Welsh speakers as a minority. That's something that I have believed over the years and now I am making that point as culture Minister. I intend to take action on it so that we can learn lessons from linguistic equality that we need that same kind of mission in terms of racial equality, and we are a long way from achieving that at the moment. 

May I thank David Melding once again for his comments, and may I say that we understand the importance of public-private partnership in the arts? I'm not going to make any statements in this brief debate on the future of Theatr Clwyd or the millennium centre, but may I say that we are working hard as a Government? I don't have the budget in my department, but we're working hard as a Government to ensure that we can take care of both national institutions in south and north Wales. 

Rhianon Passmore, as always, inspires me with her love of music and her absolute commitment to music, and I'm very grateful to you yet again for emphasising the fact that we in Welsh Government need to stand up clearly in this situation and make it clear to the UK Government that we support live music and that we support in particular orchestral music, which is the highest achievement, obviously, of the musical sector. 

And then finally Siân Gwenllian. Thank you for your request to reassess Welsh Government support for the arts. I take that seriously, too, and I will seek to respond to it over the coming months that I have in this role. I also accept that live performance is crucial, not just in terms of income for organisations but also in terms of people's experience and that the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 does place a duty on us as a Government today to take action for the arts. Thank you. 

Thank you. Before I call Helen Mary to respond to the debate, I have had notification of an intervention and, as this is a debate, I will take that intervention. Huw Irranca-Davies. 

Diolch, Dirpwy Lywydd. Thank you very much for this. I'm not used to doing interventions at this point in a debate, but it's a very brief point that I'll ask the Minister to take on board. On page 22 of the report, which I very much welcome and thank Helen Mary and her colleagues for it, Liam Evans-Ford, the executive director of Theatr Clwyd, calls for involvement from the people who run the venues and the companies to build the operational plan, going forward, rather than non-operational bodies coming up with a framework. I suggest to the Minister, as a former arts manager myself, that that is precisely who he needs to be engaging with and listening to, including people like the not-for-profit Awen Cultural Trust in Bridgend, which runs venues big and small, grand, but their objective is not just to spread arts and culture but to actually make people's lives better. Please, please, please listen to those up and down the country, because they are the ones who do democratisation of culture and cultural democratisation all in one great synthesis. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dafydd. 

Thank you. I call Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I want to begin by thanking all Members for their contributions to this debate. One thing that I know for certain is that many people who work in the sector are very worried and feel under a lot of pressure at the moment, and they will have been hugely reassured to hear the support and the strength of feeling about the importance of the arts from across the Chamber today.

Time doesn't allow me to respond to everyone, but I do want to make a few responses. I'd like to thank David Melding for his kind words about my chairing. There could not have been a worse time, in some ways, to start chairing a committee, but I certainly had amazing support from the staff and from my fellow Members. I think David's point about the importance of retaining the muscle memory of the sector was something that came out very clearly from our evidence. If we lose the sector as we have it now, it will take decades to rebuild it, if it's ever possible to rebuild it at all, and it's important to remember, of course, that the arts workforce is international, it's very flexible, and if we can't retain people here, much of our best talent may choose to go elsewhere.

Rhianon's passion, particularly for music, is always inspiring. I fully agree with all she says about the seriousness of the situation, and I also agree that we will need investment both from the UK and from the Welsh Government to ensure that our arts sector survives as it goes forward.

Siân Gwenllian's points about the need to reassess I thought were very well made, and that's why the committee has asked for a new national plan, a new way forward, developed with the sector, and I support what Huw Irranca-Davies says both about involving the sector in the immediate response and how we build back better, but also in looking forward to what our arts and culture may mean to us. Of course, the significance, as Siân says, of the arts in helping us to understand what we've all been through and helping us to recover as individuals, as communities and as a nation is something that we must not lose sight of. We as a committee would strongly support the call for Welsh Government to act and invest, and the point she also made about the importance of this being not just the big national institutions, but also those local community groups that many Members have referred to that bring us into touch with our arts in everyday life.

Can I thank the Deputy Minister very much for his overall positive response? He's right that the arts are at the heart of our lives, even in the heart of this dreadful crisis. I must apologise for our use of the word 'lobbying'; I take full responsibility for that. We do not expect our Ministers to lobby Westminster Government, we expect them to have discussions with them. I take full responsibility for the wrong word, but I'm sure that he knows what we mean. And I'm sure that he also appreciates the urgency of those discussions, and the urgency of the sector knowing something about what's going to happen, because the truth is that as August comes around and businesses and organisations are expected to contribute towards the cost of furlough, organisations with no income will not be able to do this, and our arts sector is therefore is on a financial knife edge and I'm sure he knows that. 

I respect the Minister's position that he doesn't feel the need to set up a separate group. He would, of course, expect me to say that we will scrutinise his work as he moves forward and his co-operation with the sector, and I know that he will welcome our doing so.

Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to bring my comments to an end by just saying again how much I know the sector will have valued the very positive, optimistic and I think committed tone of this debate. We look forward to the Government's formal response to us in due course, and I'm very grateful to the Minister that he's made some initial indications, but we wouldn't have expected a full response today. And I did just want to comment on what he said about the importance of live performance—that this is something that people participate in as well as simply watching, and it's very difficult to get that from a screen. And I'm also very grateful to him for accepting the points that we've made about the need to look again at diversity, and to ensure that our black and minority ethnic citizens are appropriately reflected at the heart of our cultural life.

So, with those few remarks, Dirprwy Lywydd, I would like to commend this report and this motion to the Senedd, and look forward to working with the sector to ensure that our cultural life is strengthened after this horrible crisis.  

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I'm not seeing an objection. Therefore, the committee's report is noted in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.