Thank you, Chair, and thanks to Plaid for bringing today's debate. We often hear speakers say at this point, 'On this important subject', well, today's debate, if we look at all the amendments, really is on an important subject, which is: should we continue to have an Assembly or Senedd at all? And the simple answer to that is, 'Yes, we should continue to have it, if it has the democratic backing of the Welsh people.' If it doesn't have that backing, then we shouldn't have it. Democratic consent is everything.

But we do need to hold referendums roughly every 15 to 20 years, so that we can ascertain what the public actually think, because, sorry, Darren Millar, there is no such thing as the settled will. Opinion changes over time, so we do need to measure it. I would say that the amendment I'm moving today, for the Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party, is simply following the logic of Plaid's motion. Plaid assert in their motion that, I quote:

'the people of Wales have welcomed the ability for Wales to act independently'. 

Well, who are these 'people of Wales'? Does everyone in Wales think the same? Plenty of people in Wales think that coronavirus has exposed the massive confusions that arise when you have four different Governments operating within the United Kingdom. Plenty of people have been discovering that they don't really want four Governments; they don't want four different NHSs across the UK, they want one NHS. They don't want four different sets of Government rules or four different furlough schemes; they want one set of rules and one furlough scheme, and so on. An awful lot of the people of Wales now see devolution for what it is, a costly inconvenience, and those people of Wales should be entitled to have their say.

Plaid's motion further states that independence would give Wales greater agility and resilience. Well, an independent Wales would certainly need agility since we would be running a massive budget deficit, and without the UK Government, who would we get to subsidise us? Who would Mark Drakeford and his Cabinet colleagues take their begging bowl to if we were not part of the UK? If Wales is going to prosper as an independent nation, as Plaid seem to think, then can they tell us precisely where the annual £15 billion English subsidy to Wales is going to come from once we are no longer part of the UK? Because the people of Wales might just want to know that.

Can we turn our attention to the two referendums that have addressed the issue of whether or not we should have a devolved body here in Wales? In 1979, Wales voted against devolution; in 1997, Wales changed its mind and voted to have an Assembly. That was fair enough; 18 years had passed in between and there was a strong case for asking the Welsh public again. We are now 23 years on from the 1997 referendum, which created this place. In addition, we have had 21 years of devolution. The public can now make an informed choice, based on the actual experience of devolution, as to whether or not they want it to continue. That is all we are asking, that the people are consulted.

In my party, of course, we want to abolish this place since we think it is a waste of public money, but we do not say that our ideas are more important than what the Welsh people want. Of course they're not; we simply say that we should have a referendum and then do precisely what the Welsh people tell us to do. After 23 years, it is high time that the people of Wales are allowed to have their say once again. That is why I'm moving this amendment today. Diolch yn fawr iawn.