Llywydd, I welcome this debate, which, despite its pejorative title, is really about the future structure of the UK and Wales's relationship with the other three nations of the UK. Now, during the COVID pandemic, we have moved significantly beyond our former concept of devolution, to a version of four-nation government. Devolution is a reform that has had its time, and we must now look to a modern and radical constitutional reform, to make Wales and the UK fit for the twenty-first century and beyond.

There isn't time in this debate to develop complex arguments around Plaid Cymru's various concepts of independence and what it actually means in a global, capitalist economy. This is a common problem with this debate—terms are often used that mean different things to different people, and without definition. Independent from whom, how? And there are many other questions. But rather, in the short time available, I would like to confirm my commitment, and that of Welsh Labour—and I think indeed that of UK Labour—to a constitutional convention, which will also need to address the issue of democratisation and reform for England, and to tackle the English question, which is vital in this debate.

It is important to restate, I think, a fundamental, international, United Nations and, indeed, socialist principle, mainly that all nations have the right to self-determination. The type of Government in Wales, and its relationship with the rest of the UK, must always be a matter of choice for the Welsh people. And as long as that is the free and democratic choice of Welsh people, then Wales is indeed independent. Choosing to share sovereignty, however that is defined, if freely made, is not contrary to independence. The UK was no less independent by being part of the European Union, and Wales would not be any less independent by freely being in a constitutional and financial relationship with the UK.

But reform must, in my view, happen soon, or the UK risks breaking up, or at the very least a process of fragmentation by default, and with adverse social and economic consequences for the people—[Inaudible.]—vital. Now, the cross-party, inter-parliamentary forum, which is a body of all the constitutional and legislative committees in the various Parliaments of the UK, including the House of Lords, has stated on numerous occasions, in solid agreement, that the current constitutional arrangements are not fit for purpose.

Llywydd, I'm not a nationalist, and I reject nationalism as a negative and divisive ideology. I prefer an approach that is based on the decentralisation of power, bringing power as close to people and communities as possible. Now, we recognise the common interests that working people and communities in Wales have with their counterparts in England, Scotland and in Northern Ireland. I'm also not a unionist. It's simple: I'm a socialist. And the guiding principles of a constitutional convention should be to develop a constitutional framework, acceptable to all four nations, to be approved by referendum, based on the principles of justice, equality and the fair distribution of wealth for the benefit of all four nations, and all the people of the UK.