Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

3. Questions to the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales – in the Senedd at 11:37 am on 15 July 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 11:37, 15 July 2020

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. My concern, Minister, is that Wales is unfortunately heading for a deeper recession. I certainly think we need to have trust in our businesses when it comes to implementing safe social distancing and reopening their premises to get the economy moving again. I wonder if you could let me know what assessment has been produced in regard to the slower approach of reopening the economy that the Welsh Government has overseen.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:38, 15 July 2020

I'd like to thank the Member for his question, and if I can just say, first of all, that our more cautious approach in Wales has led to, as the First Minister has recently said, a positivity rate of just 0.25 per cent for all of those tests that are currently taking place. Compare that to Blackburn, where the rate is 7 per cent, 28 times higher. I'd ask any business in Wales, 'Would you prefer to be operating right now here or in Blackburn?' Our cautious approach is designed to prevent dangerous, damaging spikes and a second wave. That's why we've been cautious, that's why we have ensured that the long-term interests of the economy and businesses—the 260,000 businesses within Wales—are at the heart of our decision-making process.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 11:39, 15 July 2020

I thank you for your answer, Minister. Of course, this is not only about protecting public health, but it's also about protecting people's lives and livelihoods as well. In my inbox, you will find it's currently bursting with people telling me how regrettable it is that UK hasn't moved with the same approach across the UK, and this has caused, sadly, some unnecessary confusion that has put Welsh businesses at a disadvantage. Last week, the First Minister announced that indoor tourist attractions can open, but there doesn't seem to be much clarity on what can open and what needs to stay shut. So, I would be grateful if you could provide some clarity on that area today. In my view, there's absolutely no reason why a business shouldn't be able to reopen immediately, providing they do so with social distancing regulations and hygiene guidance in place.

It's also taken the Welsh Government over a week to make any announcement in regard to supporting the housing market by removing the burden of land transaction tax, but the announcement is nowhere near as generous as the UK Government has outlined for properties across the border. Minister, can you and the Finance Minister commit today to looking seriously at the tax levers that you have responsibility for, and lower or abolish any tax that stifles aspiration and, in doing that, give the economy a boost that it needs with immediate effect?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:40, 15 July 2020

Can I thank Russell George for those questions? First of all, as to the tax level before we decided to increase the threshold, the threshold was the highest in any part of the UK, benefiting thousands of people who were purchasing properties who would not receive the same sort of support across the border in England or elsewhere in the United Kingdom. The decision that was announced by the business Minister and finance Minister yesterday will enable us to build thousands of additional social houses, enabling people who are currently homeless to have a roof over their head, and it's absolutely right that we do all we can as we build back better to create a more equal economy and a more equal society. We make no apologies for the decisions we are taking to empower and enable people to strive to be as good as they possibly can be in terms of their employment prospects.

Now, I can say to the Member that, contained within the wales.gov pages on coronavirus regulations is a comprehensive frequently asked questions section, and that provides all of the detail that might be necessary to businesses that are contacting, I know, not just Russell George, but many other Members, asking for answers in regard to those regulations. I would point every Member to those frequently asked questions pages.

We plan and then announce policy in Wales. We don't announce what we intend to do and then try to plan afterwards. We do not wish to play policy swingball in Wales, creating uncertainty, as has been created in England. When we make an announcement, we wish to stick to it.

Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 11:42, 15 July 2020

Thank you for your answer, Minister. I wonder if you could commit to a date when the remainder of the economy can reopen. My question would be why stick so rigidly to the three-week reviews. If it's right to make a change now, then do it now. When announcements are made, I would appreciate it if clarity could be attached to those announcements. For example, I mentioned indoor tourist attractions. Andrew R.T. Davies in his comment today on the business statement mentioned wedding venues, an issue also raised with me. There doesn't seem to be that clear guidance available. I appreciate, Minister, you've pointed us to the frequently asked questions document on the Welsh Government's website. I often use that, and that's appreciated and that's helpful, but it doesn't always give—often it doesn't give—the clarity that businesses need. Ultimately, I would like announcements to be made with clear guidance attached to them so that my inbox isn't full, and social media isn't full, of those questions that follow. I appreciate you may say you've spoken to the industry, Minister, in putting guidance forward, but not all businesses are members of associations and trade bodies. So, announcements do need to be made with guidance attached and also communicated well to those particular sectors.

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:44, 15 July 2020

Can I thank the Member and assure him that there are dozens of guidance documents now available on the Government website? They are available for different types of workplaces. They are available for employers as well as for citizens, particularly for passengers on public transport. We've attempted to make the guidance as clear and as comprehensive as possible, and it is fully accessible to anybody wishing to seek guidance, whether they operate a business or whether they are accessing one.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones.

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, you will be aware that there are hospitality businesses who at present do not have access to outdoor spaces to operate, and you'll also be aware of the steps that are being taken by local authorities to open up our public spaces to enable more businesses to trade outside, predominantly hospitality businesses. It is, of course, possible to do that in the short term by using exemptions to regulations that local authorities can use themselves, but the Minister will be aware that there is a very complex pattern of regulations, planning and highways issues that local authorities need to take into account if they wish to open those public spaces for businesses to trade longer term. Taking into account the points made earlier about the need to do that in a way that enables disabled citizens to be able to move about freely, will the Minister work with colleagues to consider using Welsh Government's emergency legislative powers to suspend some of that pattern of regulation, and to make it easier for local authorities, if they wish to do so, to permit hospitality and other businesses to trade outdoors longer term? 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:45, 15 July 2020

Yes, I'll commit to doing just that. We wish to ensure that local authorities can make timely decisions and make appropriate changes to the public realm to enable businesses to operate in a viable way, even during these incredibly difficult times. And I can assure the Member that we hope to be able to enable businesses within the hospitality sector to open indoors from 3 August, provided we still have coronavirus under full control. 

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 11:46, 15 July 2020

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer. I think that he would agree with me that those outdoor spaces will continue to be useful to businesses, though; because of social distancing, they will be able to serve fewer customers indoors and that has an effect on their profit. 

If I may turn now to the matter of those businesses that have not yet been able to receive support either from the Welsh Government or the UK Government, taking into account the point the Minister has made in the past that it may not be possible to help everyone. He will be aware that the start-up bursary fund has been very well received and subscribed to. The Minister in the past has made reference to the possibility of a hardship fund for those businesses—relatively small numbers, hopefully—that simply haven't been able to be helped elsewhere. But there seems to be some confusion now about whether he still intends to do that.

So, can I ask the Minister today whether the possibility of a hardship fund is still under consideration for that relatively small number of businesses who haven't yet been able to secure help? I'm sure that he would agree with me that while those businesses may not be hugely significant in terms of the economy overall, they are very significant to the business owners and the people who work in them, and the communities in which they operate. 

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:47, 15 July 2020

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones and say that we are certainly open to considering a hardship fund? It will be dependent on our assessment of the economic resilience fund, the latest phase of that particular intervention, but also it will be dependent on the UK Government's response to the UK Treasury select committee's recommendations, which concern the gaps that have been exposed through UK Government support. And we'll also be assessing the self-employment support scheme, because it does appear that many of those individuals that are being pointed to Welsh Government for advice are actually eligible for the self-employment support scheme. 

Data just published today at 9.30 a.m. shows that 16 per cent of people who are eligible for the self-employment support scheme in Wales have not yet made an application. That amounts to tens of thousands of self-employed people who, I fear, perhaps are not aware that they are eligible for that important support scheme and instead are looking, first and foremost, to Welsh Government. But we have always been clear that the economic resilience fund is designed to complement, not duplicate, UK Government interventions. So, I would urge anybody who is self-employed to look first and foremost at the self-employment support scheme, and to apply as soon as possible, because we estimate that there could be around 30,000 people who are yet to benefit from that scheme. 

Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 11:49, 15 July 2020

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer, and I trust that Business Wales is providing that advice to self-employed people who contact them. I know efforts are being made to make the contact with businesses as simple as possible, but it can still be daunting. The Minister in his answer refers to the role of the UK Government in supporting business to deal with this crisis, and I think although there are faults with the schemes, we've all been grateful for those. But does the Minister share my frustration with the situation as it stands that the Welsh Government has to depend so much on the UK Government to respond appropriately to the needs of our businesses and our communities? Does the Minister ever look at the kind of fiscal autonomy that is enjoyed by some independent nations that would enable him and his ministerial colleagues to borrow and spend in ways that best suit our communities, rather than having to depend on a larger neighbour at the other end of the M4, who does not always fully understand the impact of their actions on our communities, and may not always share the priorities of this Welsh Government, this Parliament and this nation?

Photo of Ken Skates Ken Skates Labour 11:50, 15 July 2020

Well, I'd agree with the Member entirely, and the finance Minister has spoken on numerous occasions now about how we would be able to potentially do more if we had additional powers over borrowing and greater scope to intervene. I think what coronavirus has demonstrated is that the Welsh Government, even with its limited financial resources, has been able to make a huge difference to businesses. We estimate that something in the order of 34 per cent of businesses in Wales have sought support from Welsh Government or UK Government. The comparison with England speaks volumes; the figure across the border is just 14 per cent. That demonstrates the role that this Welsh Government has had in successfully hibernating businesses during the worst of coronavirus, and saving tens upon tens of thousands of jobs.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 11:51, 15 July 2020

The Brexit Party spokesperson is not present, and therefore I'll move on to question 3—Mark Isherwood.