Well, Llywydd, the Member's conversion to the cause of Scandinavian social democracy has been one of the phenomenons of the whole coronavirus experience. And the position in Sweden is a great deal more mixed than I think he wishes to imply: more deaths in Sweden than the whole of Denmark and Norway combined, and with their care home sector particularly badly affected. So, nobody should believe that there is a single shining example to be found even in Sweden.

But, on a general point, I don't disagree with what the Member has said: we want the economy in Wales to reopen, we want people to have livelihoods in front of them and businesses to succeed. But it's why we have gone about it in the way that we have, because I think nothing is more difficult for a business than to find itself opening and then shutting, and then reopening and the risk of reshutting. Because that erodes the confidence that Carwyn Jones referred to earlier in the session of the people on whom those businesses rely: their customers. And the way we have tried to do it in Wales, in a step-by-step way without, at the moment, having to reverse the measures that we have introduced, I think, is good for business, and businesses need to succeed in what is an economic as well as a health emergency.

But my argument would be that our approach to it has been good, not simply for public health, but what's good for public health is good for business, and that's the way that we've tried to approach it.