3., 4. & 5. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) Regulations 2020, The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 and The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2020

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 2:55 pm on 5 August 2020.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 2:55, 5 August 2020

Thank you, Llywydd. I thank Members for contributing to the debate. I'll try to respond to the variety of points. I might not get through all of them, given the number of specific points made. Just in terms of dealing with the points raised by the committee, I have written to the committee. I don't know if the letter's got to the Chair yet, but I think that will cover the points that have been raised in the reporting points, both about the technical issues and the merits issues as well. So, they'll be all available and on the record.

I think I'll just deal with the first point that Mark Reckless made about why we've revoked the original regulations to have a new set of regulations to be amended. That is simply because we think they will be a more coherent scheme of regulations available, making it clearer and more distinct for both Members and the public and people trying to follow the regulations, rather than to continue re-amending the original regulations.

When it comes to the points that both Rhun ap Iorwerth and Andrew R.T. Davies made on face coverings, it is a fact that this is a live matter of not just public debate, but these are regular conversations we have with our scientific advisers and with the chief medical officer, about the current state of the evidence, and the evidence being reviewed, and then practice as well. So, in Wrexham Maelor there's a specific situation, and that's why face coverings are now required of people accessing that site. There isn't a need to have Government regulations for that requirement to be real. But we'll continue to review what would happen generally, with the current circulation of coronavirus, but, if there were to be local action, then the potential for further use of face coverings is a matter that could be further reviewed, just as we have done in terms of public transport, where we recognise that not only is there a cross-border issue, but, of course, there is a challenge where, as more people use public transport, social distancing is much more likely to be difficult, and the current advice of the chief medical officer has been to recommend the use of face coverings where social distancing isn't possible. We recognise, actually, that, for simplicity purposes as well, it was the right thing to do to actually make that mandatory on public transport. So, we are continuing to consider evidence of the practical realities of where we are on face coverings, as indeed on a wide range of areas.

I do want to address some of the points that Andrew R.T. Davies made about Roald Dahl Plass and other venues. Of course, Roald Dahl Plass, I should say, Presiding Officer, is in my constituency, and I recognise the concern of a range of people who come to Cardiff Bay for leisure and other purposes, and there are challenges in some of the behaviour. That's partly about engagement, but also enforcement. And it's the point about public behaviour, because it's public behaviour that has allowed us to get to the point where we've made further easements, and we may yet get to make more. But it's also public behaviour that provides the greatest risk to continuing to ease the measures that we're still taking to restrict individual and community choices. It’s public behaviour that will be the best guard against a further rise in coronavirus through the autumn and the winter. We actually need to not just deal with enforcement where people appear to be breaking the regulations, but also to remind people of the risks of those choices to individuals and people, not just the issues about the litter and anti-social behaviour but, as we go through the autumn and the winter, what that could mean as regards a rise in coronavirus, as we've seen in other countries with low prevalence. That is the reason why, for example, Aberdeen is now in a localised lockdown in Scotland. So, it's a matter for all of us in the choices we make as community leaders. It's a matter for us as individuals within our communities to try to make sure that coronavirus is kept at bay. And, within that, I do think very clearly about the impact on businesses as well as individuals.

I would like to see more easements as quickly as possible, as safely as possible, and that's still what the Government is aiming to do. But that is going to be within the context of taking a deliberately cautious approach to keep Wales safe. That requires clarity in our communications, and I do think that whilst the Brexit Party simply oppose the approach we're taking—and they've been consistent in that—even people who disagree with the approach of this Government, I think, would acknowledge that there's been a clear and consistent level of communication in areas where people disagree with us. I think that clarity is really important, and I think that helps the public to understand the rules and make choices about them.

In terms of our plan for the future, not only do I have regular meetings with the First Minister, the chief medical officer and our chief scientific advisers, but I've indicated we will be publishing a plan at the start of the autumn, in the early part of the autumn, for preparing for autumn and winter. It was welcome news we'll have more money available. That's been announced today following a statement by myself and the finance Minister. Within that, I'll also be setting out, as the First Minister indicated—ahead of that, rather—the balance between local and national action and what those things will look like.

Now, these regulations are, of course, just part of our response to managing the coronavirus pandemic here in Wales and we'll continue to take action to manage the pandemic and protect the public. Taken as a package of measures, these regulations, I believe, are sensible and proportionate. The changes have gone a significant way towards returning to a more normal social and economic life in Wales. It still carries with it an element of risk, but we do not believe that risk is excessive.

All of us need to remember that the virus has not gone away and we need to maintain vigilance in following the messages, in particular about social distancing and good hand hygiene, to keep all of us in our families and our communities safe. I look forward to further easing in the time available to us, but I'll also, as will the Government, continue to take every measure possible and necessary to keep the people of Wales safe. And that may yet require us to amend these regulations further to move easements in the opposite direction. But, as I say, I hope we can take further steps to have further easements for every community across the country. I thank Members for contributing to the debate and ask Members to support the regulations before us today.