2., 3. & 4. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2020, The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2020 and The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 5) Regulations 2020

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:02 pm on 26 August 2020.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 3:02, 26 August 2020

Thank you, Llywydd, and I thank Members for their contributions to the debate, which I'll try to deal with in turn.

I thank Dai Lloyd for his contribution on behalf of the committee. I noted the correction required in my opening comments and confirm there was no practical impact for the issue that needed correction. I don't believe there is inconsistency between the guidance and the regulations, but I'll be happy to consider it further given the extra detail that the Member has provided.

On Andrew R.T. Davies's comments, one of the four issues that are largely in the public domain about the improvement notices served is the Wetherspoon in Wrexham where there's been a cluster around that particular public house. It's largely about a lack of social distancing within the staff areas, and that's the purpose of the improvement notice served by Wrexham council. It's important to recognise that this is about both how businesses look after their customers, but also their staff as well. And that wasn't because it was impossible to undertake social distancing for members of staff, it was actually that the requirements weren't themselves followed. And to be fair, the employer has recognised there is a need to revisit the guidance and the training that staff have to make sure there's proper adherence in the future. 

On the point made about the educational settings, I heard him make the same point to the First Minister as well, and of course we are debating the regulations that have already been passed as opposed to the as-yet-unfinished business of resolving and revising any advice we give around face coverings and education. As I say, they're not part of the regulations, and as I indicated yesterday, I expect us to make a statement from the Welsh Government today. I would have preferred to have been in a position to make that now, but it's important that we get it right when we make it, and when we do it'll come in a formal statement to Members and we'll obviously answer questions in public about it. 

When it comes to Neil Hamilton's points, I simply don't agree with his consistent opposition to any Welsh Government measures that we have taken on the basis that we are keeping Wales safe. I simply don't agree with his plea to take away all control measures and that the benefits outweigh the damage. I indicated in the press conference on Tuesday that at least 2,557 people in Wales had lost their lives as a result of coronavirus. That is the sort of damage that we are talking about, and without any control measures, I believe many more families would have suffered loss, many more people would have long-term damage to their health. This is a new threat that causes significant mortality within our population. I do not believe that it would be conscionable at all for the Welsh Government to refuse to act to keep our citizens safe, and I'm glad for the way that most parties within the Senedd have recognised the need for this Government to take action during the course of the pandemic.

So, all of the regulations that were debated today reflect careful consideration about how best to balance freedoms with managing the continuing threat of the virus. We've taken into account the views from a range of partners, businesses, local authorities and, indeed, the shadow social partnership council and trade unions in other discussions.

We continue to try to prepare ourselves for the autumn and the winter ahead and to talk, where possible, with colleagues in other administrations. And in that, in some of the implementation of our enforcement framework, others, including the Scottish Government, are now looking to learn from what we are doing here in Wales. So, I make no apology for the continuing caution of the Welsh Government, in particular about allowing people to mix freely in uncontrolled indoor environments that cannot be regulated. No doubt all of us are impatient to visit friends and family in their homes, and by extending the potential size of an extended household, I hope we'll help more people to do so safely. But, as ever, it's one step at a time. We will continue to be vigilant in observing the evidence and seeking out opportunities for further liberalisation as quickly as possible, as safely as possible. But, in the meantime, I commend the regulations to the Senedd.