Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:58 pm on 16 September 2020.
Thank you for the series of questions. I go back to there's some consistency in what Members have said and also contrary points. So, thinking about what Leanne Wood said about, 'Why aren't we closing all the pubs now?', there's a counterpoint that pubs that are being responsible, who don't want to see any restrictions, and where we are is a measure of restriction for all licensed premises because of the evidence we have. We've chosen not to close all premises because we recognise that some are behaving responsibly, and as I say, we don't want to displace all of that activity into people's homes where there are even greater risks of transmission.
So, as I say, it's a balance, and the challenge about taking hyperlocal choices is how many different messages people can have communicated and still follow because many people say, 'Give us simple rules and simple guidance for us to follow and to understand.' It lies behind some of the frustrations members of the public have about different messages between different Governments. We are trying to do the right thing for Wales and to take national choices and to understand local choices, and in any area where you have a border around the choices you're making, there's going to be transference across and a need to understand. Now, those rough edges in choices we make are inevitable, but there isn't a perfect choice, as you will know, being a former Minister; you never get to make a perfect choice in Government. But within this, we have to make choices that are, on balance, going to keep people safe, and avoid as much harm as possible.
So, on that challenge about the border, there's a difference between visiting for social purposes and if people have genuine caring responsibilities. For some people, they're genuine caring responsibilities and for others, they're not so. Now, that's a significant interruption in how people live their lives, and I recognise that, but if we don't do this, then we're likely to see coronavirus spread further, not just within RCT, but across that pretty porous border in the way people live their normal lives. We all recognise the harm that took place ahead of and then during the first lockdown.
And then, on your point about the impact of lockdown, I guess there's a challenge here for the UK Treasury to think about the impact of local lockdowns, where you end lots of activity and you end up almost certainly seeing a reduction in the tax take and economic activity, and at the same time, the cost you need to put in to sustain that activity, and what will happen if we don't support businesses and the challenges of those businesses going under if they're not supported, and equally, the much wider challenges if people aren't supported to isolate as they should do. If people go out, it makes more local lockdowns and a national lockdown—not just in Wales, but across UK—more likely, with a much higher financial price to pay, as well as a price we'll all see being paid in terms of people's health and well-being.
On your point around wedding venues, I think the point is well made. I'm afraid the news isn't good for your constituents, but I will take on board the point about how we within the Government write to those venues and those operators, because I recognise it's a significant life event, there'll be people who are really anxious about it, and this does have meaning. So, I'll certainly take that up and take on board your comments.