Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:09 pm on 22 September 2020.
Thank you, Llywydd. I thank Members for their contributions and I thank the committee for their scrutiny. And on the broader points raised by both Andrew R.T. Davies and Rhun ap Iorwerth on the process, these are made in mind with the made-affirmative process that this Senedd has provided for. The Government is always open to conversations about how business is transacted, and, of course, the Presiding Officer and the Business Committee have an important role in making sure this is done in accordance with our own procedures. We recalled this Senedd, of course, during the summer to pass made-affirmative regulations as well. It's an important lock on the Government's ability to make these regulations that the Senedd has to agree them for them to continue.
We are in unprecedented circumstances, as Rhun ap Iorwerth has indicated, and part of our challenge is the speed at which we need to move, but also the speed at which the course of the pandemic changes. The start of these regulations being debated today is about further easement, and yet we're now discussing further restrictions taking place right across the United Kingdom with a significant warning about the harm that will take place in this country, as in other parts of the UK, unless further measures are taken. I think Rhun ap Iorwerth's point about clarity and messaging is important. It's always important to look at how our messages are being received and understood by the public, and I do think that the four-nation engagement at leadership level will help with that in every part of the UK.
In terms of Mark Reckless's point, we'll be debating the Caerphilly and RCT regulations next week, as indicated by the Trefnydd and also in my opening. Both Neil Hamilton and Mark Reckless were keen to indicate their preference for the Swedish approach, and as the First Minister indicated earlier today, the death rate, I think, in Norway is over 200 deaths, and more than 5,000 deaths in Sweden. The comparison, I think, for the harm caused between comparable Nordic countries doesn't do many favours for the Swedish position, or indeed commend it as the approach we should take here.
You will recall that tomorrow, I think, and in the weeks to come, we'll be debating the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee's report on the first stage of response. Far from suggesting that we should have taken a more lax approach, the concern there is: did we do enough at the right time with the knowledge that we had? The Government isn't going to completely move its position and take a more laissez-faire Swedish approach to managing the real risk that coronavirus poses for all of us. We think these are proportionate measures being taken now to avoid harm in significant measure, but there is no perfect choice to make. We recognise that lockdown had downsides too.
All of the regulations today reflect careful consideration of how to balance the freedoms we enjoy with managing the significant continuing threat of coronavirus. Our approach has been guided, as always, by the chief medical officer's department, public health advice, scientific officers and our technical advisory group, and we regularly and openly publish a summary of their advice and the study they make of the evidence within Wales, the UK and beyond. As I set out, we take specific and proportionate action, as we're doing in response to the rise in cases in the south-east of Wales.
The main point, though, is that every one of us has a responsibility to make choices and to follow the measures that are in place, to keep us, our loved ones and our community safe from this infectious and harmful virus. Specifically, we all need to keep our distance from each other when we're out and about, we need to wash our hands often, we need to work from home wherever possible, we need to wear a face covering in indoor public places, and we need to stay at home if we have symptoms and while we're waiting for a test result. And we need to follow any other restrictions that are in place locally. The regulations are for all to follow for the benefit of all. We all have a role to play in keeping Wales safe, and I ask the Senedd to support these regulations.