7. Will the Minister make a statement on the evidence used to include English in Section 3(2) of the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Bill? OQ55588

The Bill is currently being scrutinised by the Senedd and therefore I do not intend to make a stand-alone statement on this matter. Though, as I have already indicated to Members, I am open to discussions and will listen to concerns.

I was going to say, 'Thanks, Minister', but I don't think I can now, really, because it's a very simple question about evidence. What I would have appreciated would have been some interaction on the question of evidence so at least we can have a grown-up discussion about this.

I think, having spoken to professionals in the field—this morning, actually—again, one question that comes to my mind is, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.' I think what we need to have is an understanding of the Welsh language, the special conditions that it takes to learn a language in immersion circumstances. And I think we really need to pay at least some attention, some real attention, to the so-called figure of a million speakers, which I think is just paying lip service at the moment, because I see no evidence.

I'm disappointed with the lack of engagement with the question. All I was asking for was some evidence, and you clearly have none. Thank you. 

I can assure the Member, Presiding Officer, that there are plenty of grown-up conversations being had about how we can deliver the targets of Cymraeg 2050. I am perfectly aware of the success of the immersion model in helping children acquire Welsh. My own children have benefited from it. There is nothing currently in the Bill that will prevent immersion from happening, but I am aware of concerns about how the Bill might inadvertently make immersion, or the increase in immersion, more difficult and therefore, as I said, I am willing to listen to those concerns and to engage positively with those people who positively engage with me.

Thank you for your answer to Mr McEvoy and also your previous answers to the last couple of questions, because it's all along the same theme. But I think the real barrier to being able to provide and to meet the Cymraeg 2050 target is actually the difficulty of getting Welsh-speaking teachers in play. We need more of them and we need them in all the different areas of Wales. There are some parts of Wales where it's incredibly difficult to get Welsh-speaking teachers. Conversely, we also have young people who are training as teachers who don't yet have Welsh and they're finding it sometimes difficult to find jobs that are non-Welsh-speaking. So, how are you going to address that balance in order to meet the Cymraeg 2050 target? And how can we encourage more people to become Welsh-speaking teachers so that we can not only do immersion learning but actually learning in the non-Welsh schools?

Thank you very much, Angela. The first thing that we need to do is increase the number of students who are studying Welsh at A-level, because we know that that qualification is often a precursor for people to go on to study Welsh at a higher level and then converting then into teaching Welsh, and we are promoting a Welsh A-level take-up scheme to promote that subject so that more students take it. Within initial teacher education, we are indeed providing opportunities for those students who currently do not have Welsh skills to be able to acquire those skills as part of their initial teacher education, so, even if they don't intend to go and teach in a Welsh-medium school, they can deliver high-quality Welsh lessons within the English-medium sector.

For those teachers who do, indeed, intend to teach through the medium of Welsh, we have provided funding—although, I have to admit that COVID has created some disruption to this programme—that will allow primary school qualified teachers to convert to be able to teach through the medium of Welsh in the secondary sector, because that is where we have particular shortages—in the secondary sector. And, indeed, those wishing to pursue a career teaching through the medium of Welsh continue to attract the highest level of ITE financial incentives if they choose to go to study for a teaching qualification in Welsh. 

Last week, I met with Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol to talk about what more they can do, learning from the expertise that they already have in expanding Welsh-medium provision in the HE sector—what more they can do to work with our individual higher education institutions and the Education Workforce Council to ensure that we can increase the number of people who are acquiring those skills necessary to teach Welsh successfully in a Welsh-medium school or in an English-medium school.

I'm pleased to say that we have an uptick in the number of recruits onto ITE this year, but one swallow doesn't make a summer and we need to continue to press on this agenda.

Finally, question 8, Rhianon Passmore.