I'd like to start by thanking Jack Sargeant for tabling this debate and the many Members of the Senedd who support the motion. I've heard some stuff about UBI, but I must admit that my brain usually switches off as soon as it's mentioned. It's always been locked away in the part of my head that says, 'Something for nothing? I don't think so.' So, in the interests of opening my own mind, I volunteered to participate in this debate and I've done some reading and some research.

I've worked all of my life, from my early teens. I've earned all of my own money, and I've raised four children largely with little help, financial or emotional, from both of their fathers. I cared for my elderly father when he was in his last years, too. I've done all sorts of jobs—menial jobs I was damn grateful for. I've done jobs for £1 an hour, and I was glad to have those. The only time I claimed any sort of benefit was when my spine collapsed. I needed that security blanket, and I was grateful for it. That said, if ever I fall on hard times again, if ever one of my sons is made redundant, if my daughter returns to Wales and can't find a job in our post-COVID world, I want a support network in place for them, for everyone, that is compassionate and realistic, and able to respond to the needs of the individual.

I do think the UK benefits system is a mess, administered by an entrenched tick-box civil service that just can't get it right. However, the fact that the bulk of the benefit is paid to people in work is beyond me. Why does the taxpayer effectively subsidise shareholders of large corporates that won't pay a decent wage to people for decent work? While this continues, pay growth will continue to stagnate, and I do think it's remained pretty flat since the financial crash. And yes, people will need the support of top-up benefits and food banks while this remains the case. It's a total disgrace.

I've read with interest reports of the trial of UBI in Finland in 2018-19, but the thing that concerns me is that the net result was that the unemployed became less stressed and a little happier. They did not during this period seek work or training opportunities. That would be a big problem. And surely, the aim is not for those who can work—and I accept that some people cannot do so, but for the others—to languish at home. It has to be to encourage them to find work or to upskill. And let's not forget that everyone in work gets a tax-free £12,500 and a pass on national insurance under £9,500. 

As part of my research, I've delved into the world of universal credit, built on the foundation of one payment for all benefits due. I personally have no difficulty with the concept of universal credit, but I do take issue with the way it's been administered, causing deeper poverty and untold stress for claimants. Is universal credit not the same sort of thing as UBI? This is a genuine question for those who know more about this than I do. We represent a nation of workers, all of whom should take great pride in the contribution they make to society, whatever they do, and they, more than anything, I think, want to see fair play. What would they think of a proposal for UBI? I'm not sure it's a vote winner although that is certainly no bar to discussing it in great length, and I'm not sure ordinary people are ready for it. Although I do understand that some of the sentiments behind the motion are perfectly laudable, I do find some of these sweeping statements in it questionable. 

My group will not be supporting this motion as it stands. We believe that the sense of purpose, self-worth and discipline of a job have far more merit than the Government handing out sums of money to those who don't necessarily need them. As I mentioned earlier, there are real structural issues with the welfare system in this country, not least the propping up of big businesses who don't want to pay decent salaries. While I now know more about UBI, and for that I thank you for this debate, I don't believe that UBI is the solution to this problem at this time. Thank you very much.