5. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd: Update on fiscal impacts of COVID-19 and future budget prospects

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:06 pm on 6 October 2020.

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Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 5:06, 6 October 2020

I'm grateful to you, acting Presiding Officer, although I may not demonstrate that gratitude in my comments. Minister, there's one thing we will always agree on, and that is that you can't trust the Tories. You can't trust the Tories with Wales and you can't trust the Tories with the interests of Wales. I always worry when Ministers rely too much on the largesse of a Conservative Government that essentially, historically or today, has never given a damn about the people we represent. 

And there are two-ish areas that I would like to ask questions of you. First of all, in the fiscal framework you've spoken about the work that you've done with other finance Ministers and the Treasury across the United Kingdom. I've got real concerns about the way the fiscal framework is working at the moment. You've talked about some of the additional flexibilities that you feel you need and require, and I agree with you, I think they are all necessary, but fundamentally, at its heart, the fiscal framework doesn't work in the way that it needs to work, and I think we need to think hard about how the structure of UK finances works. They are not working at the moment, and I don't believe that without structural reform they are ever going to work. So, I'd be grateful, Minister, if you could indicate whether you are working on a replacement for the fiscal framework and how you would see any structural change being taken forward, and whether you've started to have any of these conversations with your colleagues in other Governments.

The second point I would like to make is this one: we do have significant financial powers at our disposal in this place. Nick Ramsay was absolutely right in his analysis of where we are and the powers available to the Welsh Government and to the Senedd. And it is right and proper that we look at those powers and we examine the use of those powers. You've referred to tax powers; I think the Welsh Government is wrong on taxation, frankly. I've made that point before and I'll make it again: I don't think we can realise our ambitions and the vision that was laid out very well by the Counsel General earlier with Tory levels of taxation, which is essentially what we've got. And so I think we've got to think hard about how we structure that and how we take that forward. But how else, Minister, have you examined the use of fiscal powers and the financial tools at your disposal to ensure that our communities that are suffering in an appalling way at the moment have the resources, and the Welsh Government has the resources, to fundamentally change the future of our country? Thank you.