Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:32 pm on 6 October 2020.
Well, Minister, you certainly know how to stir up opposition, don't you? I remember the first set of main coronavirus regulations, voting against those. I think there were just three or four of us then. Last week, there were seven or eight in opposition, and this week you have the main opposition saying that they will be voting against the substantial all-county south Wales lockdowns that you're imposing. Even Plaid are saying that they will consider their position before deciding whether to support you.
I just wonder whether you might reflect on whether this has anything to do with how the Welsh Government has managed these regulations. I, as you know, consider that they are disproportionate and counterproductive, but they're also capricious, they're also arbitrary and you have also been defensive and closed in the way that you have put them forward.
Why on earth can't we have the ward level information that is requested so ably by Andrew R.T. Davies? Public Health Wales have published it down to an individual level on their website for nearly 24 hours. Why can't you put that ward data out there and actually engage with the debate? It's because you're not that you're now seeing this level of opposition, and I've spoken before about COVID lockdown fatigue. There's going to be more of it, because it's no longer being done on a cross-party basis; it is being imposed by the Welsh Labour Government against widespread opposition.
Can I ask you, specifically, about the 10 p.m. lockdowns? Whether it's 10 p.m. or 10.20 p.m., surely it is counterproductive to make everyone leave at once. How does that help reduce spread? What about those hospitality businesses that invested so much in getting COVID secure and ready to reopen, and then you do that to them?
Specifically, and finally, I'd like to ask about the council lockdowns; this apparent rule that in Wales you're not allowed to cross a council border: not going out of the region, the wide region in south Wales with infections, but not to go out of your particular council area; not to stop you going within the council area. Minister, again, I see you go to your office in Cathays Park but you won't come here. What is the purpose of this and what is your ask to the UK Government in terms of what they're doing in England?
You talk about respecting devolution, but are you telling them that they have to do for English county areas exactly as you're doing in Wales, because we say, 'You're not allowed to leave the county area', therefore that's what they must say for local lockdowns in England? What gives you the authority to do that? Or, are you saying they have to add on, 'You can go out of your local area, but you mustn't cross the border into Wales'? Or, are you in Wales proposing border control where you put restrictions on people from England, who can move freely within England, to tell them they cannot move to Wales? Has devolution come to this?