Questions now from party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, do businesses that have received funding from the Welsh Government during the pandemic need to become unionised?

I'm sorry, Llywydd, I can't hear—I can't hear Russell George.

Okay. The question will be repeated. I'm not sure what the problem was there. Repeat the question.

Can I just check, Llywydd—can I be heard now?

Yes. That's perfect.

Thank you, Llywydd. My question was, Minister: do businesses that have received funding from the Welsh Government during the pandemic need to become unionised?

No.

Well, I'm very pleased with that answer, Minister—that businesses don't need to be unionised in order to receive Welsh Government support. I raise the question because of a recent letter that had been sent to businesses in receipt of funding from the economic resilience fund. Now, as I read this letter myself, there does seem to be an element of strong-arming businesses into becoming unionised.

Now, there's clearly frustration from businesses—. As it happens, Minister, I understand the requirement from Government to attach requirements for fair working for employees in connection with receiving Government funding, but the fact is that there are thousands of businesses up and down Wales that have employees who do not see the benefits of being a member of a union, and the businesses they work for work with the fair and correct working that we would all expect. I wonder if you would reflect on that feedback that's been received as a result of that letter going out. 

I turn to another question, Minister: during the new restrictions that have come into force in north Wales, there is clearly a concern for businesses in that area, which fear that local lockdowns will lead to job losses in the tourism and hospitality sector in particular. Now, I welcome the additional funding that you announced last week to support the tourism and hospitality sector, but it is concerning that only half of the economic resilience fund from the last phase had actually been distributed. How are you going to ensure, Minister, that the money is distributed more quickly in the future to ensure that businesses that are, sadly, on the brink of collapse are protected as quickly as possible?

Can I thank the Member for his questions? First of all, on the point regarding the letter that we sent out, I make no apology whatsoever for my commitment to working with employers and trade unions to change people's working lives for the better. Nobody is trying to coerce any individual or any business, but we are promoting a 'something for something' relationship between the public and people and businesses who receive taxpayers' money in the form of grants or loans that are favourable. And it's about making sure that we move to a point where we collaborate more, we don't just co-exist as Government and businesses, where we work together on employment opportunities. And I really must say that the role of the unions in promoting better health—and particularly better mental health—in the workplace is vitally important. We know just how much of an impact poor mental health—poor health in general, poor well-being—has on productivity rates. Trade unions help businesses overcome those problems, and I just look to Airbus as a perfect example of how, when you have strong union partnership with management, you can achieve great things. For decades, they have had there strong union partnership between management and the unions, primarily Unite, and, as a consequence of that, they have fought as one for new projects—new wings, new research and innovation, more investment centrally from Toulouse. So, I'd encourage the Member to move on from a 1980s, jaundiced view of trade unions and recognise that social partnership has enormous value in the twenty-first century.

Now, in terms of tourism and hospitality businesses, what would be cataclysmic for tourism and hospitality is failure to get coronavirus under control. And that's why we have taken action early to bring down those numbers swifter, so that the restrictions, hopefully, can be eased or removed quicker. And in terms of getting business support out of the drawer fast, I think our local authorities did a remarkable job in administering the grants for tens of thousands of businesses across Wales, putting many councils across the border, actually, to shame in terms of the speed in which they were able to administer them.

And I must remind Members again that what we are offering through the economic resilience fund is the most generous and comprehensive package of support anywhere in the United Kingdom—so far, it's secured more than 100,000 jobs; it has helped more than 13,000 businesses—which, if they were based in England, they would not have benefited from.

Minister, I agree with the many benefits that you point out that being member of a union can achieve, but the fact is that employers and employees can also work together without being members of a union, which is the point I was making and which was the concern that was being pointed out by those that were frustrated by the letter.

Finally, Minister, looking ahead at your long-term ambition to see around 30 per cent of Welsh workers working from home following the COVID-19 pandemic, you say that this has the potential to drive regeneration and economic activity in communities. However, whilst homeworking may be suitable for some, others see the benefits of real-life interaction, which can stimulate ideas, creativity and business productivity.

The figure of 30 per cent does seem to be arbitrary, so it would be helpful if you could explain how you arrived at that figure. But I wonder also what assessment you've made in regard to how this figure will affect town-centre planning, the growth deals that are dependent and have planned for office space, and also public transport planning and the raft of other planning-related areas as well that will be affected by this figure that you've presented, Minister. But to understand the logic behind 30 per cent would be welcome.

Can I thank the Member for his questions, and say that I do appreciate his more reasonable sentiment today regarding the letter to employers than his colleague expressed in the press release last week, which I'm afraid was just pure scaremongering?

In terms of remote working and homeworking—or, as I like to call it, multi-place working—we came to that target on the basis of the proportion of people who have been homeworking and remote working during the course of the pandemic and then made a reasonable assessment of what could continue into the medium and longer term.

The Member rightly raises the question of growth and city deals. All of the existing deals have to be COVID-proof, and regional partners have done a very good job in carrying out immediate assessments of various programmes and projects that are contained within their deals. But I have to say that the aim of increasing the proportion of people who work remotely or from home is to ensure that we get a better work-life balance, to ensure that wellness and well-being at work is improved, to ensure that we inject more vibrancy into town centres with remote-working hubs, and as the Member said—rightly—to drive innovation through co-locating public services with private sector services as well. I'm incredibly excited about the prospects for remote-working hubs in many towns that have felt left behind in recent decades. Near me, in Wrexham, we have the town-centre enterprise hub, which has been hugely valuable in promoting and supporting business start-ups and bringing—mainly young—people together who have innovative ideas, huge creativity, and work with one another. They get their ideas from one another. They promote their own businesses, but, crucially, they also support one another's. 

Plaid Cymru Spokesperson, Helen Mary Jones.

Diolch, Llywydd. I know that the Minister agrees with me that the steel industry is absolutely vital to the future of Welsh industry, and I'm sure that he would also agree with me that, in terms of decarbonising the industry—. Sorry, is the Minister having trouble hearing me?

I missed the first part of Helen Mary Jones's question.

Okay, can we—?

Shall I start again?

Can we repeat the question fully?

Of course. I know, Minister, that you'll agree with me how important the steel industry is to not only Wales's current economic activity, but to our future. And I'm sure that you would also agree with me that, in order to decarbonise our use of steel in Wales and in the UK, we should be decarbonising our own production, rather than allowing our production to disappear and then purchasing steel from other countries where they may not be setting the same decarbonisation targets as we are. Now, obviously, that long-term future is dependent on the immediate survival of the industry, and I wonder if you can tell us today, Minister, what recent discussions you have had both with Tata and with the UK Government about the current position of the steel industry in Wales and its immediate future.

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her question? It gives me an opportunity to promote the consultation that's taking place at the moment concerning the Welsh Government's new manufacturing plan. I encourage all Members to contribute to that consultation, because it covers all important sectors within the Welsh manufacturing base, including, obviously, steel. And we are determined to support the sector to become sustainable. But the main role—as the Member has alluded to, the main role in supporting the future of the sector is actually the UK Government's. And the industrial energy transformation fund could prove to be of huge value, but we've been clear in stating that, as a very minimum, we would expect a Barnett equivalent to be drawn down by Welsh businesses from the industrial energy transformation fund. We've said that, actually, we believe that a significant proportion of that fund should come to Welsh businesses, given how we are dependent on many businesses that are intensive in terms of their energy use.

Now, we have very regular discussions both with UK Government and with Tata, and, in fact, I have weekly calls with UK Government Ministers within the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. My understanding is that those commercially confidential discussions are still proceeding between Tata and UK Government, and we've impressed upon UK Government a need to make sure that there is sector-specific support relating to the pandemic for important manufacturing subsectors, such as steel, automotive and aerospace.

I'm very grateful to the Minister for his answer, and I'm sure that we all, across the Chamber, will be glad to hear that those discussions and negotiations are ongoing. We had a representative of UK Steel, the umbrella body, before our committee today, and he acknowledged the point that the Minister makes—that there will need to be UK-wide intervention, and that intervention is beyond the capacity of the Welsh Government. But he did say that there was one very important thing that he felt that the Welsh Government could do, and that was to use procurement to ensure that when Welsh Government is spending our money—Welsh public money—on things like the house building programme, on infrastructure developments, that there are clear targets for the percentage of Welsh steel that is used in those developments. I appreciate there may be issues about those being binding at this stage, but you could set those targets and you could ensure that the performance of companies against those targets was published. It was certainly our witness's view that that would make a big difference. He also suggested that this would be an opportunity for the Welsh Government to set a good example to the UK Government that the UK Government could then consider following. 

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for that important point about the role of Welsh Government in supporting steel businesses in Wales through the procurement process? As we seek to build back better, we intend to do so using Welsh steel, and we will look for every opportunity to do so. The Member is aware that the Welsh Government was the first Government to sign up to the steel charter, and that demonstrates our determination to use procurement as a lever to support the Welsh steel industry. And I'd like to put on record, Llywydd, my gratitude to UK Steel for the advice that they have given to my officials as well. They're an excellent umbrella organisation, serving Welsh steel businesses extraordinarily well.

Thank you for that, Minister. I'd like, in my third question, to take you to a very different industry, and that is the hair and beauty industry. We, again, had representatives of that industry before us—before the committee—today, and they were emphasising the importance of those businesses as destinations on the high street. You know, you can't get your hair cut remotely; you might be able to buy your books remotely, but you can't get your hair cut remotely. She expressed a concern that she wasn't always convinced that the importance of the industry was understood properly by Welsh Government. She pointed out, of course, the importance of the industry in providing opportunities for women, and for women who work part time. 

She also pointed out some potential anomalies in the safety regulations. She told us, for example, that whereas a barber, mostly male, is allowed to shave a male customer, a beautician, mostly female, is not allowed to give a facial to a female customer. She was suggesting to us that, for the viability of the industry going forward, she'd like some of those anomalies in the regulations looked at again. I'd like to invite the Minister today to commit to look at those anomalies and also to send a clear message of his own understanding of the importance of this industry, which also, of course, has an impact on the well-being of customers.

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her third question and say that when I announced the third phase of the economic resilience fund, the first inquiry I got was from somebody who owns and operates a hair and beauty salon, asking whether the lockdown fund would be applicable to them? It will be. Where the business development grants would be available to them, they will be, provided, of course, they employ people and they meet the criteria. The lockdown fund will be administered by local authorities. Of course, I'm in no doubt that in those areas where there are restrictions, where customer footfall has fallen significantly and where turnover has dropped below 40 per cent, a very significant number of businesses in the hair and beauty sector will benefit.

I can assure the Member I will look into those anomalies that she's outlined. In any way that I can, I will help that important sector, because, as the Member says, it contributes towards social justice, employing a high proportion of women. Therefore, we have to ensure that we support the survival of those businesses as much as we can, because experts predict that it will be women; young people; people from black, Asian and minority ethnic communities; disabled people and people with low levels of skills who will be most adversely affected if we do not intervene with strength. And we intend to intervene with enormous strength.

Brexit Party spokesperson, David Rowlands.

Diolch, Llywydd. Given that part of the strategy to reinvigorate the Welsh economy post COVID-19 is the expansion of the engineering sector in Wales, would the Minister outline where this expansion is most likely to occur? By that, I mean the companies and projects the Minister sees as being the new or existing anchor points for this expansion.

Well, I'd like to thank the Member for his question and, again, stress the importance of our recently published manufacturing plan; that covers those areas of growth in engineering that the Member has asked about. He has until the middle of the month to make his views known on the manufacturing plan, but there are opportunities for growth, of that there is no doubt. 

Today, I've learnt about huge opportunities associated with jobs in the floating offshore wind industry, which could be of major benefit to many parts of Wales; opportunities concerning logistics hubs and offsite manufacturing; and also opportunities in terms of advanced electronics. The Welsh Government is taking forward—. As an example of how we are backing these opportunities up with action, we are taking forward plans for an advanced technology research centre, which will focus on advanced electronics and provide many opportunities for engineers and businesses within the advanced electronics field.

I am confident that as a result of the Welsh Government's focus on the manufacturing sector—our dedication to manufacturing in Wales and to engineering in Wales—that we can emerge from coronavirus in a position of strength. But, it's also vital that we work as a partner to the UK Government in refreshing the UK industrial strategy, and that we draw down a greater share of UK Research and Innovation funding. It is a tragic fact that too much of that funding—four times as much, per head of population in Wales—goes to the south-east of England. There is a golden triangle that, for years and years, has taken the lion's share of research and innovation funding. And, as part of the UK Government's aspirations to build back better, to level up, research and development and innovation spend is a crucially important factor.

Thank you very much, Minister, for that answer. Minister, we have heard much talk with regard to the centre of engineering excellence proposed for the Heads of the Valleys area, particularly around Ebbw Vale and other parts of Blaenau Gwent. Could the Minister give us an update on the projects envisaged for the region, in particular the possibility of TVR relocating to Ebbw Vale, which would of course be a catalyst for other automotive production companies?

And turning, Minister, to something I broached in a debate a little while ago, when I mentioned that there was a great opportunity with the closure of the RAF St Athan apprenticeship facility to set up a Wales university of modern technology under the umbrella of Cardiff University. Though of course not yet finalised, the prospect of Britishvolt locating to St Athan is something I believe everyone in this Chamber would welcome. Surely, Minister, setting up such a training facility in close proximity would greatly assist the company in recruiting the skilled personnel it will undoubtedly demand. It may also provide a catalyst for other companies in this sector to locate to St Athan, especially given its proximity to Cardiff Airport. Can I call upon the Minister to give the creation of such a facility serious consideration?

Well, not just myself but also my colleagues, primarily Kirsty Williams, the education Minister, would I'm sure take a very keen interest in the proposal. We will look at it very carefully, and I can assure the Member that I'm in regular calls with TVR and with Britishvolt. These are significant opportunities for the Welsh economy, and in particular TVR offers an enormous opportunity for the Heads of the Valleys as well, not just in terms of job creation but in terms of kudos that the brand could bring to the area.

I should put on record today my thanks to the National Digital Exploitation Centre, which has proven to be incredibly valuable during the course of the pandemic, offering free support from the Ebbw Vale site, and I can assure the Member today that we are fully committed to delivering on the Tech Valleys initiative.

Question 3 next, Helen Mary Jones.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. I hope the Minister isn't getting fed up with me by now.