Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:31 pm on 7 October 2020.
Can I thank everybody who's contributed to the debate this afternoon for the largely supportive comments that have been made? Siân, Huw, Dai, the Llywydd and the Minister have all identified some of the key aspects of the report around equality and diversity, political consensus, new ways of working, scrutiny, better legislation, and the need for a stronger Parliament. That is all what this report sets out to do.
In terms of the contributions from Neil Hamilton and Gareth Bennett, they were utterly predictable. Neil Hamilton talks about evidence not being taken on the other alternatives, but of course evidence was taken from a very wide range of stakeholders. Everybody had the opportunity to submit their evidence and to submit their views, and whether they chose to do so was a matter for them. In terms of referenda, again, we've already heard that there is no requirement in law for a referendum. We've had two referenda on the establishment of this place and powers, and a third referendum would not be necessary unless the Member in charge of taking the legislation through the sixth Senedd indicated that that was what they wanted to be a part of the legislative process.
I do think it's important, Llywydd, just to point out that whilst it suits the populist political agenda of some people here to make all this about more Members and try to make that the headlines, and deflect from anything else, we have to acknowledge that is a central plank of the proposed reforms, of course. I truly believe that if we had a representative and deliberative consultation process with the public as we had planned to do—and Neil Hamilton's comments about a citizens' assembly just demonstrated to me that he clearly doesn't understand what a citizens' assembly is and how it works, because it is a very deliberative consultative process. It can join a wide range of people. We had planned to do that until the pandemic hit us, but we still need to convince people of the need for what we have set out to do.
So, there is still very much more to do in relation to the recommendations of this report. It is about how this Senedd truly represents the people of Wales through inclusivity and diversity, and how the people of Wales can deliver representatives who are truly reflective of their views with an electoral system that ensures that everyone in this place is directly accountable to a constituency that elects them. And again, I have to say to Neil Hamilton, I don't know what he does during his time as a Member of the Senedd, but for most of us, this is a 24/7 job, and it's not about three days a week sitting in Tŷ Hywel or in the Senedd. This is about the work we do in our constituencies, with our communities as well as the work that we do in this place.
Llywydd, as far back as 2004, we had a commission set up to look at the many issues of powers and electoral arrangements for this Senedd. That commission recommended more powers and more Members. We got the first, but the second has not yet followed. Despite the commission and the McAllister review, votes in this Senedd and this committee report, we're still debating these fundamental issues. But how many more commissions, reviews and reports do we need to tell us what we already know? It is now about having the courage to take this forward, because this whole package of measures would deliver a more accountable legislature, more responsive to the needs of people of Wales, and more able to ensure good governance and good government. I hope this Senedd approves this report, and that we can build a political and public consensus that will finally deliver the changes proposed.