Item 10 is the Smoke-free Premises and Vehicles (Wales) Regulations 2020. I call on the Minister for Mental Health, Well-Being and Welsh Language to move the motion—Eluned Morgan.

Motion NDM7437 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves that the draft The Smoke-free Premises and Vehicles (Wales) Regulations 2020 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 29 September 2020.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Llywydd. I formally move the regulations before us today. I recommend that the Senedd supports the Smoke-Free Premises and Vehicles (Wales) Regulations 2020, and I formally ask Members to support the regulations before us today.

The Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 places restrictions on smoking on school grounds, hospital grounds, in public playgrounds, and in open-air care settings for children. These regulations will reinforce those provisions as noted in Part 3 of that Act, and will also replace the Smoke-Free Premises etc. (Wales) Regulations 2007. So, taken together, the provisions of the 2017 Act and the 2020 regulations will introduce a new smoke-free regime in Wales with the aim of protecting public health from second-hand smoke, which hopefully will help to denormalise smoking yet further. As a Government, we are committed to taking steps against smoking and to make ongoing and positive changes with the aim of improving the health of the people of Wales. The 2017 regulations have shown the efficiency of smoke-free policies in denormalising smoking.

The aim of this legislation is to build upon our current tobacco control measures, by making more public places smoke free, and reducing the prominence of smoking in Wales further. The purpose of the requirements under these regulations for smoke-free hospital grounds is to promote behavioural change, and to help smokers using our hospital services to quit. Limiting smoking in these areas and reducing smoking are seen as setting a positive example, and it's crucial in terms of discouraging people from starting to smoke. So, these regulations do assist with our ambition to deliver a smoke-free Wales.

Since laying the regulations, we have been informed of two minor corrections that need to be made to the draft regulations. Whilst assuming that the regulations will be passed, these minor amendments will be made before the regulations are made. Thank you, Llywydd.

I call the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw. 

Thank you, acting Llywydd. We considered these regulations at our meeting last week, and we considered the Welsh Government's response to our reporting points during our meeting yesterday morning. Our report contains three merits reporting points.

The first merits point notes a concern that the Welsh Government has not set out its justification for interference with article 8 of the European convention on human rights. We believe that the regulations do engage article 8 of the convention, which is the right to private life. This is a qualified right, and the Welsh Government should set out its justification for any potential interference with that right. Section 7 of the Public Health (Wales) Act 2017 provides that premises in Wales are smoke free if they are workplaces, which includes certain dwellings. The regulations remove exclusions for certain types of work activities from the assessment of whether a dwelling is a workplace for the purpose of section 7. The effect of removing these exclusions is that all types of work activities will be included in the assessment of whether a dwelling is a workplace, and therefore more of these dwellings will be required to be smoke free.

Similarly, the regulations also provide that privately owned vehicles are to be smoke free when a child is in the vehicle, and in both of these situations, the regulations affect how people conduct themselves in their privately owned property. Our report asks the Welsh Government to set out how it considers that these regulations are compliant with article 8 of the European convention on human rights. In response, the explanatory memorandum has been amended to say that a very thorough assessment of the provisions contained within these regulations has taken place to ensure that they are compatible with the European convention on human rights and the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. However, we do make the point that it would be more helpful if the explanatory memorandum had been updated to include the actual details of this thorough assessment.

Our second merits point highlights that there are cross-references in the regulations to provisions of the 2017 Act that are not yet in force. The Welsh Government's response to us indicates that, subject to the outcome of today's debate, a second commencement Order will be made that will commence the remaining provisions in Chapter 1 and Part 3, and related Schedules of the 2017 Act, on 1 March 2021. This would mean that the provisions around the new smoke-free regime within the 2017 Act could operate substantively from 1 March 2021 alongside the regulations. 

Our third reporting point noted that the regulations require notification to the EU in line with the requirement of the technical standards and regulations directive 2015/1535/EC, and that no objections were made by member states to the draft 2020 regulations. Thank you, acting Llywydd. 

If I could seek a point of clarity from the Minister when she responds to this debate. On the Welsh Conservative benches, we have a free vote on this issue. As someone who's lost two individuals to lung cancer—two very dear individuals to lung cancer—I cannot see a coherent argument when it comes to smoking, but I accept a certain percentage of people in society do choose to smoke, and if they do choose to smoke in their own space in their private dwellings or their private space, without inflicting that on someone else, then I think that's their right to do that. And this is the difficulty I have with these regulations. I'd grateful for an explanation—and I'm sure other Members on the Conservative benches and hopefully other Members of the Senedd would be grateful for an explanation—as to how far these regulations reach into that private space. We heard the Chair of the constitutional and legal affairs committee touch on dwellings and workplaces in his remarks, in particular the impact on human rights. So, I'm not coming at this as someone who's a denier of the effects of smoking, because I believe passionately that we need to stamp smoking out, but I do believe passionately in the right of individuals to exercise their own discretion in their own space—their private space. I noticed that the Minister didn't allude to that in her opening remarks. She referred mainly to hospitals and other public spaces where we all subscribe to trying to seek a ban to stop smoking in those public spaces. So, if we could get that clarity from the Minister, I'd be most grateful, in her responding remarks.

Before I call John Griffiths, can he just assure me that he's been present for the duration of this debate, if he wants to be called? Because your video was not on.

Dirprwy Lywydd, yes.

Therefore, you may speak. I call John Griffiths.

Thank you very much. The introduction of legislation banning smoking in the grounds of hospitals in Wales does have the potential to play a major role in reducing smoking prevalence by denormalising smoking and encouraging smokers to quit, and I believe the same is true for the possibilities of banning smoking in school grounds and park playgrounds, and, indeed, many other places. I hope that we will build on the progress made to date.

But, I do believe that if, as a country, we are to make the most of this opportunity, it is very important to ensure that smoking cessation support is readily available within those hospitals for patients who want to quit. We know that several thousand people die from a smoking-related disease in Wales every year, and it causes around one in six of all deaths in people aged 35 and over. So, you know, it really is a major cause of ill health, and we need to prevent this and help our overstretched NHS. Of course, we have COVID-19 now, and we know that smoking is another risk factor for people if they get that condition.

So, there's already a strong need to provide smoking cessation support to smokers who are admitted to hospital, providing medical professionals with a golden opportunity to target those smokers who need smoking cessation support the most. I know the research from ASH Wales has shown that there is overwhelming public support for such a measure, with, I think, something like 75 per cent of Welsh adults in support of offering smokers staying in hospital help to stop smoking. In places like Manchester, it's worked very well, of course—there's the CURE project in secondary care treatment. In Canada, known as the Ottawa model for smoking cessation—under that project, all active smokers admitted to secondary care are immediately offered nicotine replacement and other cessation services alongside the treatment that they need, and, also, after discharge.

So, I do believe that as part of these measures that we're taking forward, and, hopefully, the progress that we'll make, it's important to consider these possibilities, these approaches, because they are proven to work elsewhere. When people are in hospital, you know, they're obviously readily accessible; it does provide an opportunity and, hopefully, they're amenable to these very important messages.

Thank you. I do remind Members who Zoom in that you must have your video on if you want to ensure that you'll be called; you can't just presume on the kindness of the Chair, though it will be exercised, no doubt, when appropriate. I call on the Minister to reply.

I just want to reply briefly to those who have contributed. I first of all thank the Chair of the legislation committee, and thank him for recognising that we have shown in our explanation that we are complying with international law. It's important to highlight that smoking is not a human right, and it's important that people understand that. We do know that smoking is very damaging to people's health. It is one of the main causes of illness and early death, and is particularly prominent in terms of health inequalities in our communities.

Just to respond briefly to Mr Davies: just for clarity, the measures that we are bringing forward today do not impact private spaces. What we're talking about here are hospitals and public spaces such as public playing fields, for example, and that doesn't affect private spaces. Just to add to what Mr Griffiths said on the assistance that we need to give people who do want to quite smoking, we do need to focus on ensuring that people are aware of the fact that we do have a service in place, Help Me Quit, that has been active throughout the pandemic. We are aware that many people do want to quit smoking during this pandemic.

We have seen a general reduction in the prevalence of smoking in Wales, but we are aware that more needs to be done. These regulations are part of our ongoing efforts to make Wales a smoke-free area, where smoking isn't seen as being normal, and where people will be supported in making positive choices for the benefit of their own health. So, I ask the Senedd to support these regulations, and I do agree that it is vital that we do improve the health and lives of the people of Wales. Thank you.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? Did we get—? [Objection.] Yes, I have seen an objection. So, I will defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.