5. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport: Funding for Buses

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:50 pm on 20 October 2020.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 3:50, 20 October 2020

Thank you. I'm not entirely clear what additional detail Russell George feels that I'm denying the Senedd. I do have a two-hour session coming up in front of the economy committee, which I'm greatly looking forward to, so there'll be plenty of opportunity to go through any detailed questions that he has then. Certainly, there's no attempt, on my part, to conceal anything. Some of this, by definition, we are working through in partnership with the bus industry as we speak. So, it's not an attempt to hide anything, it's simply that we are working in partnership, as I said we want to do to be able to reach the details. But the outline, I think, we've made very clear, and we've also made clear the funding we've provided, namely £140 million this year to do that, and we want to deliver it through Transport for Wales on a regional basis. And I think I did set out in the statement, which Russell George mentioned he'd had advance sight of, the principles that would guide that approach. So, perhaps we can continue this conversation in committee, or if you'd like to write—I'd be happy to try and help him as far as I can.

In terms of the funding to operators during the lockdown, we are continuing the funding that we have in place. Even though we are expecting and requesting services to be wound down, we're not going to be reducing the funding that we are making available to them. We simply think that it sends all the wrong signals to be requiring people to stay at home, whilst continuing to run the same frequency of buses as we did before. We knew from the first lockdown that the sight of empty buses rattling around the streets sent a contradictory signal, and we didn't want to see that repeated. 

He asked about the consequences of homeworking, and the 30 per cent aspirational target that we've set for that being a permanent fixture. As I mentioned in the statement, across the world passengers are voting with their feet by staying away from mass transport because of concern about the virus. That's not a consequence of any Government decision, but, obviously, the Government requirements around social distancing and indeed the lockdown compound that. We would expect, under the homeworking regime that we've talked about, flexibility to be the new norm. And flexibility will involve, in some cases, working from home, and in other cases, working from co-working hubs in nearby town centres. So, there may well still be a requirement for people to use public transport to get to those town centres, rather than taking a long commute into Cardiff or Swansea or nearby cities.

So, we still think there is a role for a strong public transport system, and it's certainly our intention to continue the development of the metro and with other investments that we've set out. But, in the spirit of flexibility, we do need to change the way that the public transport system works, and our demand-responsive bus programme through the Fflecsi initiative, which is now being piloted in several parts of Wales, including at scale, increasingly, in Newport, does show very promising early signs that a bus service that is more nimble and able to respond to more granular demand, rather than just the timetabled service, does meet the needs of the times. 

I think his final question was will the bus industry be supported through that change in demand. Well, this is one of these paradoxes, really, that I alluded to in my statement. We often hear from the bus industry how they are commercial operators, but now we're hearing the demands for further public funding, and it's difficult to square the two. They're commercial when it suits them, and they want more of our money when it suits them too. I think we need the new deal I talked about, which is recognising they provide a key public service and that will require ongoing subsidy, but in return for that ongoing subsidy, we need to have a greater strategic partnership with them, to make sure that our key priorities are delivered. And that's the conversation that we're having with them now. So, yes, there will be ongoing support, but it comes at a price.