7. & 8. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Functions of Local Authorities etc.) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2020 and The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 2) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 18) (Bangor) Regulations 2020

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:37 pm on 20 October 2020.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 4:37, 20 October 2020

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer, and thank you to Members for their comments. I'm pleased to note the comments from the Chair of the scrutiny committee about improvements in the provision of information and data that underpin the choices that Ministers are making.

I'm pleased to see that the Welsh Conservatives will be supporting both sets of regulations. And in an entirely constructive way to answer the points raised by Siân Gwenllian, and in particular the point about local communication, because we do always look for ways to improve the way that we not just make decisions, but then communicate them as well. In coming to these decisions, in every single choice we've made, we've spoken with the local authority leader and their chief executive. We did the same in all of the areas in south Wales, we did the same in all those in north Wales, and indeed in Carmarthenshire as well. So, Ministers have direct engagement with the leader of the local authority, and it's fair to say that every local authority, including Gwynedd, have a senior officer—in the case of Gwynedd, the corporate director, I understand—who participates in the incident management team, and they make recommendations over whether to take action and the spread and the nature of that action as well. So, the council, actually, were part of that pre-decision-making process.

Now, I don't think it's actually for Welsh Ministers to then to try to direct the engagement with either the town council or individual members of the council, but it's how we work with each of our local authorities in understanding how that communication needs to take place, and how information is drawn and then disseminated. We've taken it upon ourselves to try to make sure that Ministers and officials do then speak with constituency representatives before decisions are made so that people don't find out directly from the media about the choices that are being made.

I take on board why it would be useful for the local Member to have received a briefing—I think that eight hours in advance was the suggestion—but I'm afraid it doesn't reflect the reality of the speed of either the recommendation or the need to make decisions. And it's also the case that we have to test each of the recommendations, then understand whether Ministers will go ahead and act on recommendations or not, or whether we feel we need to test them and send them back. That includes both the size and the area of where to introduce restrictions or not. So, I'm afraid, in all of the uncertainty we're living with, I don't think we're going to be able to provide the sort of advanced briefing that the Member's requesting with the timescale that's available. If we were able to make decisions earlier in each day, it would give us more time to speak with local representatives, because, as I say, we do want to find ways to improve the way we make decisions and the way we then communicate them.

We're going into a period now where we're going to have a different set of national regulations with the firebreak. It is, of course, entirely possible that in the future, though, in the world beyond a firebreak, that we will need to have particular local restrictions. It's entirely possible; there could be a hyperlocal outbreak that would require that particular local action. So, it is certainly something that we will need to return to and I do recognise that her comments are provided in a constructive spirit and my response is meant to be so as well.

As ever, our approach continues to be guided by the advice of the chief medical officer, our scientific officers, our technical advisory cell, the technical advisory group, and the study they make of evidence within Wales, across the UK and the rest of the world. We again believe that these regulations are specific and proportionate actions to be taken in response to the rise in the number of cases that we see within specific parts of our country.

Each one of us has a responsibility to make choices, to follow the measures, the law and the guidance to help keep us, our loved ones and our communities safe from this infectious and harmful virus. A final reminder to keep our distance from each other when we're out and about and certainly to avoid contact within our own homes, to follow the rules about who isn't allowed in your own home, to wash our hands often, to work from home if we can, to wear a face covering in indoor public places, and we need to stay at home if we've got symptoms and wait for a result, and, as I say, to follow the restrictions in place locally. I ask the Senedd to support the regulations before us this afternoon.