Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

2. Questions to the Minister for Education – in the Senedd at 2:33 pm on 21 October 2020.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:33, 21 October 2020

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. May I begin with the financial situation of our universities as a result of the health crisis? I'm aware that there is support being provided by the investment and resilience fund for higher education. It appears that the applications need to be in by the last day of this month, which is within the firebreak period. And, of course, universities will have additional requirements as a result of the firebreak lockdown, which begins very soon, particularly with regard to assistance with track and trace and emotional and mental well-being.

The support is being divided between assistance to individual universities and an allocation for co-operative investment. Under the new circumstances, will you think again about extending the time available to universities to make their applications? But also, will you think about changing the way that this funding is allocated, so that you amend the financial allocation process to ensure that the funding is prioritised for that urgent assistance to individual universities, rather than for the collaborative investment? 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 2:35, 21 October 2020

Thank you for that question. We have indeed made additional resources available to the higher education sector, in additional moneys to the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales and a remit letter to HEFCW to support the distribution and the prioritisation of those resources.

The Member raises the issue of timescales—that is a matter for HEFCW. What I do know from universities is that they are as anxious as possible to see that money into their accounts, rather than in the accounts of HEFCW. So, there is a balance to be struck, is there not, of bringing that application process to a close and allocating that money, rather than extending the application process?

With regard to asking universities to work together, there is a huge appetite amongst the higher education sector here in Wales, which is based on values of co-operation rather than competition, to work together to support each other during this time. That is particularly important when being able to resource a blended learning approach and support each other in the provision of bilingual opportunities for blended learning. So, I wouldn't want to curtail the ability of Welsh universities, who see the value in co-operating to help one another to get through this time, to be lost.

Clearly, the situation is changing all the time. I'm very pleased that in even during the firebreak universities will be able to continue to provide a blended learning approach with in-person teaching as well as remote learning. But, clearly, we meet regularly with both HEFCW and the universities and the National Union of Students Wales to discuss what additional support universities and higher education and students may need during this time, as we enter into this very uncertain period of the winter. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:37, 21 October 2020

(Translated)

I welcome your decision to extend your free school meals scheme to include school holidays until the spring of next year, and, also, your decision to extend the free-school-meals scheme to include additional pupils, particularly those from low income families. Will you consider extending it further still to include families who receive universal credit, the basic provision, or, even better still, to all pupils and children in Wales, given how difficult it is for families to cope at the present time, and how important it is for children to receive nutritious food? 

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 2:38, 21 October 2020

Thank you, Siân. Wales, back in the spring of this year, was the first part of the United Kingdom to announce continued support for families entitled to free school meals during school holidays, and I am very pleased to have been able to work with the finance Minister to obtain an additional £11 million, which will ensure that children who are entitled to free school meals will continue to receive that support during this half term, during the Christmas holiday, the February half term and, indeed, the Easter holidays. We keep under review our range of support for families who find themselves in financial difficulties at that time. We know that schools are seeing an increase in the number of children who are now eligible, sadly, for free school meals, which is adding additional pressure to budgets. But we are determined not to forget those children for whom school is about so much more than just learning, and to ensure that those families have some certainty with regard to support for their children during what is, as I said, a very uncertain time. 

Photo of Siân Gwenllian Siân Gwenllian Plaid Cymru 2:39, 21 October 2020

(Translated)

I am pleased that you're keeping the situation under continuous review. That is vital, isn't it? 

Now, turning to another issue, to conclude, in July it was announced that 600 additional teachers would be recruited to schools and 300 teaching assistants for the current school year. I would like an update on this, and perhaps there isn't sufficient time this afternoon for you to give that update, but will you give us a full statement, in due course, on this, and explain to us what monitoring work and evaluation work the Welsh Government is undertaking with regard to this expenditure on the additional teachers and the additional teaching assistants, and an explanation of how this will lead to decreasing the classroom sizes in schools?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 2:40, 21 October 2020

Thank you, Siân. You're correct to say that we have allocated in excess of £29 million to support schools to address the learning loss that has already happened in our children's education. That means schools can indeed look to recruit additional teachers, teaching assistants, or indeed any other professional who they feel would be appropriate to work with their cohort of children. That could be youth workers, mentors, and we have provided guidance, alongside the financial resources, to make that happen, and I will be more than happy to be able to give Members an update about how those resources have been spent in school.

The Member also talks about class sizes. Despite the immense pressure on Government budgets at this time, we have been able to maintain our funding for our class size reduction budget as well. But the Member is right and proper to ask for an update on the use of the £29 million, and I will be happy to give that once details are available.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:41, 21 October 2020

(Translated)

Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies. 

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Good afternoon, Minister. Why did Welsh Government ignore the wishes of all 22 local authority leaders to keep secondary schools fully open during the forthcoming lockdown?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat

Well, Suzy, a range of views have to be taken into consideration at this time. As I said in answer to Hefin David, we know that keeping community levels of transmission of COVID-19 low is the best thing that we can all do to minimise disruption to education. The firebreak is essential if we are to slow the rates of infection and bring R down. In doing so, we will see less disruption in our schools, from teachers who are perhaps contracting the virus and having to self-isolate, children who themselves are catching the virus and having to self-isolate, and the knock-on effect that has to other children within their bubble.

The contribution of schools opening to R was well known and is inevitable. The Government has published its technical advice group paper, and it was felt that by asking those pupils in years 9 and above to study from home for a week, given the fact that they are more able to do that, allowed us to make sure that the firebreak is successful, and everybody's sacrifices can make a difference. 

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 2:43, 21 October 2020

Well, Minister, the news has been full of the negotiation between the Prime Minister and city region mayors, and the different deals on whether gyms, for example, should be kept open. But when the Welsh Local Government Association leaders speak as one, with one voice, on something as important as our schools, it seems that Welsh Government is perfectly content to instruct and not to listen. And I hope that the implication isn't that those leaders haven't given due consideration to the technical advice group advice, and I hope that some of the accusations levelled at Welsh Conservatives yesterday, simply for taking a different view from Welsh Government, don't attach to those leaders for also having a different view.

Minister, we all know what the children's commissioner has had to say about further reducing children and young people's access to an experience of education that they have a right to expect, with particularly serious consequences for poorer children and those in care. The age of those children isn't necessarily the determinant of how well they can learn at home. We know what some parents and young people are saying about the quality of some of the blended learning, and the work that they get sent home, and the existence of Google classrooms doesn't necessarily mean anyone attending is learning what they need do. We also know that secondary schools are now geared up to teach mainly in school, not to find out from leaked letters that expectations are going to change without any decent lead-in time. What we don't know, with all this chopping and changing, is how Welsh Government is supporting the rapidly deteriorating mental health of our teachers and lecturers. Can you tell us, please?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 2:44, 21 October 2020

Well, let me be absolutely clear: we have, even in this most difficult and serious of circumstances, been able to ensure that primary schoolchildren, children in our special educational needs schools, pupils in education other than at schools and in specialist centres within mainstream schools will be able to attend school in person after the break. I appreciate that this is a worrying time for all of those students who have been asked to stay at home for that week, but they will be supported in their learning by staff who will be indeed in school to be able to deliver that online learning. And before the Member is quick to condemn the quality of that, I can assure her that Estyn, regional consortia, local education authorities and schools themselves have been working very, very hard to put contingency plans in place to support distance learning. 

I regret that there is any further disruption to education for children here in Wales. Unfortunately, COVID-19 doesn't care about that. As I said, the best way in which we can minimise disruption to schools is to keep community transmission levels low. As we have seen community transmission levels rise, we have seen growing numbers of children in our classrooms who have had to self-isolate. If we are to get back to a more even keel and to lessen that disruption to individual classes and teachers and schools, we have to bring the R number down and that is what the firebreak is intending to do.

Photo of Suzy Davies Suzy Davies Conservative 2:46, 21 October 2020

Thank you for that, Minister. Obviously, the quality of work that's either being given to young people to take home or that they're getting remotely, is very variable. You've admitted this in the past and it's certainly not a reflection on the hard work that teachers are putting in, which is why I asked you what Welsh Government is doing to support the mental health of our teachers, particularly as over half of them are now saying that their mental health has been impacted, and the main reason for that is late arrival of new guidance on any changes that they're expected to deal with. I think the combination of education reforms and the disruption of teaching and learning due to COVID have placed a very, very visible strain on practitioners in the sector, which was already struggling with years of difficult funding arrangements and low uptake of opportunities. How can we all help to make sure that those considering teaching as a career haven't been put off by all of this?

Photo of Kirsty Williams Kirsty Williams Liberal Democrat 2:47, 21 October 2020

Forgive me, Suzy, you did ask a very direct question and it is only right that that is answered. This Government has made additional financial resources available specifically to support mental health and well-being during this crisis. And, quite rightly, whilst the majority of that resource has been made available to support children and young people, an element of that resource has been made available to support the mental health and well-being of staff and school leaders.

I appreciate that additional stress occurs when situations change, but I'm sure the Member would understand that we are dealing with a fast-paced and rapidly changing situation. Cases and statistics and infection levels can change very rapidly, and whilst it is almost always my intention to give as much notice as possible, sometimes governments find themselves in a position of having to act very quickly.

With regard to initial teacher education, I am pleased to say that we have seen a strong level of recruitment into ITE programmes this year. We will continue to work with the Education Workforce Council in Wales to promote teaching as a career, and, goodness me, if ever there was a time for an individual who wants to make a difference to the lives of children and young people in Wales, and feel that they want to make a contribution, then helping us to recover in education from the impact of COVID-19 now would be a fantastic time to think about and join the profession.