6. Debate on a Member's Legislative Proposal: Welsh Hearts Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:57 pm on 21 October 2020.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 3:57, 21 October 2020

Thank you, acting Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to start by saying 'thank you' to all Members who contributed to the debate, but in particular to Alun Davies and Mick Antoniw for sharing their personal experience. Just as with last week and the debate on endometriosis, I think it is powerful—not just for other Members, but for the watching public—where Members share their own experience of the issues being discussed. Suzy Davies did so very effectively last week, and again today with both Alun Davies and Mick Antoniw. And on Mick's specific point on maintenance—that is covered in the work that I'm going to describe in more detail, because he's right, it isn't just about having more defibrillators, it's about making sure that they're properly maintained as well as being properly accessible. And I am genuinely pleased, of course, that Alun is part of the 3 per cent of survivors. All of us, regardless of where we sit in this virtual Chamber, want to see more survivors in the future. The only real question is how.

Now, Members, I hope, will know that I'm committed to improving people's chances of surviving an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. So, to support that aim, in June 2017 I launched an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest plan for Wales. That was an ambitious plan to see the general public, third sector, emergency services and healthcare professionals work together to respond to people having cardiac arrests in the community. It is a sad fact that, as Alun has outlined, a patient's chance of surviving an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest decreases by an estimated 10 per cent with every passing minute. Survival rates are low, but there is a real potential to save many more lives, as has been demonstrated in number of countries who are taking active steps to improve each stage in what is called the 'chain of survival'.

It's also worth reflecting that the starting point would be if we could avoid cardiac arrests in the first place, in improving our broader public health. We shouldn't forget the debates we have here about exercise, about smoking, about alcohol and having a healthy weight. I was pleased to hear Suzy Davies mention Denmark: it's a part of the world where I have family, and part of our challenge in understanding why Denmark has a significantly different outcome is partly about the out-of-hospital provision, but they start in a very, very different place culturally, but also start in a very different place with significantly better public health outcomes as well. And so our challenge is to learn from all parts of how cardiac arrest survival is improved in other parts of the world. But we recognise that we do need to take concerted action to improve survival rates here. Improving outcomes requires that broad range of activities, including early recognition and call for help to try and prevent cardiac arrest happening—Alun described how there was recognition and a call for help—the early provision of CPR to buy time for the patient, early defibrillation to restart the heart and then optimal post-resuscitation care, which all play a part in giving people the best quality—the best outcome and the best potential for a good quality of life afterwards. I do recognise that progress was initially slower than I and Members would have liked, and that there has been an impact of the coronavirus outbreak, but we have made real progress nevertheless. The progress includes improving pathways within both the Welsh ambulance service and health boards to ensure that, once a 999 call is received, people receive the help necessary and the support to increase the chance of survival both prior to the paramedic's arrival on the scene and before transport to an appropriate hospital for definitive treatment.

There's been a steady increase in the number of defibrillators mapped into the Welsh ambulance dispatch system. We now have, on the last count available to me, 5,042 defibrillators across Wales available to the public now registered, and the establishment of an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest register to better map the data surrounding out-of-hospital cardiac arrests across the entire pathway from onset to treatment and discharge from hospital—and I know sometimes that looking at data isn't always that interesting, but it's really important to whole-system improvement—and the development of all-Wales guidelines for CPR and defibrillation training.

I established the Save a Life Cymru partnership in January last year, supported by £586,000 of Welsh Government funding over two years. That initiative launched in the Cardiff City Stadium, again, because there had been a commitment from people involved around the city and also experience of loss from cardiac arrest. But we're working to build on the efforts already made by partner organisations that I've already described in the third sector, Welsh ambulance, health boards and others. The Save a Life Cymru partnership is now working collaboratively in a number of ways to understand how individual organisations within the partnership work—part of our challenge is that not all of our third sector partners are aware of what each other is doing; not all of our areas of our whole system have a proper awareness of where help can be provided—and working with youth organisations, the Wales Council for Voluntary Action, public services, universities and employers to look at opportunities for joint working. Last Friday, the partnership launched a new campaign, Touch Someone's Life. That lays the foundation for saving lives across Wales. As part of the campaign, a free online training video has been created—I hope that Members will have had an opportunity to look at it, but, if not, after this debate will do so and share it. Save a Life Cymru is encouraging everyone to spend a few minutes watching the training video and learning how to save someone's life.

So, collectively, we are determined to improve the outcomes of people suffering a cardiac arrest. We do have a plan in place that has not yet run its course, and, as I've outlined, there is real progress in it. So, whilst I have a great deal of sympathy for the motion and I want to see the improvements made, I don't believe, at this point in time, it's necessary to legislate on this area or place additional statutory duties on organisations. However, the Government will not rule out future legislation or future legislative action if we do not see the improvements that we all want to see in saving lives. So, the Government will abstain today, rather than opposing the motion, and all Government supporting backbenchers will have a free vote. And I do want to say I do think this has been a useful exercise in how we spend our time within the Senedd in debating an issue and greater awareness. I look forward to the outcome of the vote, but, more importantly, to the outcome on our progress as a country in saving more lives.