I entirely agree with Helen Mary Jones: of course, this is help that children are entitled to receive. The old days when children were singled out if they were receiving a free school meal are, surely, long over here in Wales, although the long tail of stigma can take a long time to disappear. But we have a whole new set of ways in which schools make sure that children who are entitled to free school meals aren't discriminated against or picked out from other children, and I know that huge efforts are made.

Some local authorities in Wales do succeed more than others in making sure that entitlement to free school meals is automatic—that it is linked to other benefits that the local authority already knows a family to be in receipt of. The more that we can make free school meals not a matter of families having to apply for it, but it being done through the other systems that local authorities have available to them, the greater the take-up will be. The ambition of the Welsh Government is exactly as Helen Mary Jones set it out: that every child who is entitled to this benefit should be in a position to take it.

We have been working with local authorities—as I say, some of them are already more advanced down this path than others—to find ways in which not just free school meals but a whole range of other help to which families are entitled comes to them as a result of things that the local authority already know about them because of information that they've supplied, rather than requiring people to make repeated applications for help that ought to be straightforwardly available to them.