Thank you, Delyth. Absolutely, you're right, there are a number of things that we want to debunk for a start. So, first of all, we want to debunk all the myths around the quality and capability of Welsh timber in construction. So, there's a lot of nonsense talked about how Welsh timber isn't okay for house building and so on, and what this programme has demonstrated is that that's simply not so. So, these are houses that are built with Welsh timber frames and Welsh timber panels and Welsh timber shredded up as insulation, and any amount of Welsh timber that you could possibly imagine. So, you can see pretty much every use of timber that you can imagine in the construction of the various sorts of home.

We're absolutely obsessed, really, with these houses being of the absolute highest quality. So, I absolutely delight in telling the people who move into them, as social tenants in Wales, that they are living in the best housing in Europe and possibly the world. This is by no means experimental second-best and so on. I mean, having said that, some of the homes are more experimental than others—they have very unique heating systems and so on—and so you do have to make sure that the right tenant goes into them, a tenant that's prepared to have a look at how to live their lives with those kinds of heating and so on, because it's not the same as just turning on your radiator—you do have to get used to it. But we work hard with RSLs and councils to make sure that we do have tenants who are very happy to do that. Indeed, I've spoken to many of them who are absolutely delighted with what they've got. Very recently in Rebecca Evans's constituency, I spoke to a number of people who are in retrofitted bungalows that had gone from being some of the poorest housing stock we had to some of the best housing stock, which had been insulated, fitted with solar panels, fitted with ground source heat pumps and Tesla batteries, and who now had bills that were less in a year than they had previously been paying in a month. Those people were absolutely delighted. I mean, it makes me smile just thinking of the conversation that I had with them about how delighted they were with that. So, we absolutely are using it for retrofit as well, and we're learning from the programme all the time—what works, what doesn't, how we can build both the new houses and the retrofits.

And, of course, we're also making sure that, as I was saying in response to Janet Finch-Saunders, the houses are in the right place. So, absolutely we're learning from the mistakes of the past. We do want to get social housing built at scale and pace, but we also know that we need good mixed-tenure estates with active travel links to them, good green infrastructure, close proximity to schools, work and health, and so on. So, we've got a number of exemplar sites across Wales where we're showing what can be done by de-risking some of that with Government money, because that's necessary to do as well, and encouraging SME builders to come onto those sites and learn with us what can be done and actually learn the premium that you get in the private sector for building some of those homes as well. I've been to some places where I genuinely would give my right arm to be on the list of people who are going to live there afterwards, because they really are very beautiful and built with Welsh supply chains. So, there's a lot to be said for that.

And then in terms of the scale, as you said, of course we want to do scale and pace as well, but we also have to be sure that the houses are of the right quality. And what's lovely, if you look at the IHP programme over the four years of its existence, is we're watching it do exactly that. So, we're building on each wave. Every time we've got a technology that's proven that it can do what was claimed for it, we scale that up in the next year and so on. So, we're rapidly scaling up. So, this fourth year is the biggest scale of that and the roll-out has been really great, and, as I was saying earlier, it's been oversubscribed. We're going to work with all of the people who put in bids that have not been successful to make sure that we can understand what they need to do to get those to be successful so we can scale it up one more time. So, we're absolutely in that space as well.

The last thing I wanted to say was something I know is close to your heart as well, which is, when you go to see the factories that are building these, you'll see that the mix of employment there is very different. So, there are more women there, there are people with disabilities in supported employment and so on, because it's easier to do that in a safe, clean factory, than it is to do at height or in an inaccessible muddy field. So, there's a lot more opportunity for a larger range of people to get involved, and we've got our skills providers involved in making sure we've got the training too.