1. What assessment has the Minister made of the effect of the COVID-19 pandemic on tourism to Wales? OQ55783

The microphone doesn't seem to be working, Deputy Minister.

Is that better?

Yes, it's working now. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. I do apologise for that.

Thank you for your question, Gareth. We undertake regular and extensive research into tourism and that, obviously, during the period of the pandemic, has included research programmes on the impact of the pandemic on tourism industries. The centrepiece of my activity is a regular weekly meeting with representatives of the tourism industry throughout Wales and Welsh local government and businesses so that we can have an up-to-date analysis of the situation. We will be holding the next one of those on the coming Friday.

Thanks, Minister. Tourism has taken a major hit during the past few months, for obvious reasons. Although the sector was bound to be hit hard by the pandemic, I do worry about the long-term effects. Tourism has traditionally formed a big part of the Welsh economy and we want it to recover from the shock of this year, but it is going to be hard to get tourists, particularly from England, to come to Wales if there is a perception that they're not wanted here, and if there is a perception that a hard border has gone up between Wales and England. And that perception has certainly been formed, to some extent, during 2020. So, how are we going to be able to remove this perception once the pandemic has eased and we're wanting the English tourist pound once again?

You're quite right, of course, in emphasising the importance to the tourism sector of incoming visitors, both day visitors and visitors who come and stay for three or more nights, making a substantial contribution during a period of economic activity. You're quite right to emphasise the close relationship between the major population centres of the north-west and the south-west, and indeed, the midlands and the south-east of England on the tourism industry.

We are now reaching a situation where there is, hopefully, a closer understanding between the devolved administrations and their Governments and the UK Government, as the devolved Government for England in this context, about the measures that need to be taken. And as we plan, within the confines of this appalling pandemic, for a return of the visitor economy to something similar to its previous achievement, then it is obvious that we need to do this on a UK basis as well as on a Wales basis. And for that purpose, I do share regular meetings and discussions with my tourism colleagues in Scotland, Northern Ireland and, of course, in the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport in England.

First of all, Deputy Minister, can I thank you for your willingness to appear regularly at the cross-party group on tourism, where you'll have heard that tourism and hospitality, perhaps more than any other sector, have been raised as a point of concern by Members?

I'm just a bit worried that the position of attractions might be lost in this wider focus on pubs, restaurants and accommodation. And while they're obviously reasons why people visit an area, they're also a contributor to the well-being of people who live nearby, who perhaps now more than ever would appreciate a little bit of joy in their lives. The First Minister's message of asking what you should do, rather than what you can do, might undermine an alternative message that visiting local attractions, observing all the rules, could actually be good for your health, especially if it involves spending time outdoors. I wonder if you could tell us how you're working with Cabinet colleagues about messaging on this, as I'm sure that attractions would prefer to stay open and trading safely and profitably rather than seeking income support.

Attractions and events are separate important strands in the tourist economy and should be seen as such. As it happens, I was in conversation, as I am most weeks, with a neighbour of mine who I don't see in the flesh anymore, because obviously I'm unable to travel—this is Sean Taylor, he of Zip World and other developments—and we were discussing this very issue. What we are very keen to do is to ensure that, in our discussions with the tourism operators, as soon as it is possible within the framework of public health for attractions to remain open or to reopen, the potential of these attractions can be marketed directly within Wales, as would be possible now, within communities. Certainly, it is important that we do that first of all within the public health context, but, beyond that, the attractiveness of Wales, from all the surveys that I've seen and the private discussions I've had, has not diminished in the crisis. In fact, the understanding of the centrality, which you quite rightly describe, of the tourist economy to Wales and the attractiveness of the Welsh landscape and our specific visitor attractions has been enhanced by people's inability to be able to take advantage of them.

Minister, just north of the M4, just north of Bridgend, is an often-overlooked gem of the Ogmore valleys, where not only is it a real destination for day visitors and tourists for adventure tourism, with the Afan Argoed park, and so on, and the hills along the drovers' route, walking up onto the Bwlch mountain, but we also have little communities of yurt accommodation, we have caravan and camping sites, we have bed-and-breakfast offerings, and so on. I'm just wondering, as the firebreak lifts, and the travel restrictions are lifted within Wales, how do we give a clear message to people about what they should be doing—not just what they can do, but what they should be doing? And what message should we be giving, not only to day visitors and tourists in Wales, from Wales, but also to tourism providers as well? Because we need to deal with this responsibly because of where we are with the virus, but I think they are looking forward to, as you said, Minister, the day when we can point to some light at the end of the tunnel.

Well, I'm pleased to say that I have been able to walk in the area that Huw describes, and it is indeed extremely attractive. I find the Garw valley irresistible, because it's so different, and yet has a landscape that I'm familiar with in mid Wales and in north Wales.

I think the key thing here is the co-operation between communities, between local authorities and their tourism officers with the local community. At the very beginning of this pandemic, we discussed with many communities the importance of ensuring that, when it was possible to return to a more balanced potential for the visitor economy, there had to be community consent, and that people wanted to have people visit their communities. Because in the traditional way of describing tourism, there is a host community, there is a visitor community, and without one you can't have the other. So I'm very keen, hopefully, that we will be able to return to that way of thinking about the industry, because it is so economically essential for our communities, but it is also so important for emphasising the partnership of nations within the United Kingdom and on mainland Europe.

Minister, we know that the lockdown measures are having a devastating effect on the Welsh tourism industry—many thousands of businesses will not survive this series of lockdowns. And to echo Gareth Bennett's comments, the situation is exacerbated by the fact that we are actively discouraging the English, in particular, from coming to Wales. Does the Minister not accept that this will have a huge detrimental effect on our ability to attract these alienated tourists back to Wales in the coming years?

Well I'm sorry you choose to try to turn this reasonable discussion about tourism into a discussion of relationships between the English and the Welsh because this is not the issue. It's not about nationalities within the United Kingdom; it is about public health, and we have to concentrate on that. I have spent a lot of time and energy during this pandemic in trying to ensure that people do not turn this into an anti-English position, or indeed an anti-Welsh position. And in a sense, with the new measures in England as well as the new measures in Wales, hopefully we can now understand that we are all, as it were, in the same boat—or at least in two boats that are moving in the same direction.