1. Will the Minister make a statement on the early closure of applications to the economic resilience fund relating to the firebreak lockdown? TQ499

Yes, of course. The third phase of the economic resilience fund comprises of two parts, firstly the £200 million lockdown business fund, which is designed to target operating costs for businesses through the firebreak, and remains open for applications via applications via Business Wales and also via local authority websites. The second part, the £100 million longer term business development grants fund, has received nearly 6,000 applications and has therefore been paused to new applicants. We are committed to getting funds out as quickly as we possibly can do to successful applicants.

I'm grateful to the Minister for his answer. I'm sure he will acknowledge that because of the oversubscription to this fund, there were many businesses who were disappointed and some business owners who were quite distressed not to be able to make the applications that they expected to be able to make. And I say this while fully understanding the pressure on the Minister's budgets and the fact that he won't ever be able to help every single business, and that there are UK responsibilities here as well.

Can I ask the Minister, with regard to the administration of the scheme, whether he is confident that there is sufficient capacity within Business Wales to deal with this level of pressure of work? Particularly bearing in mind that this is not a one-off, as we might have expected it to be, perhaps, or hoped it might be at the beginning of this crisis, but this is pressure that's going to be on Business Wales for some time to come, unfortunately.

And can I also ask him, given that resources are limited and that the Welsh Government can't do everything, is it time now for Welsh Government to take a more targeted approach to the businesses that you continue to support, prioritising those businesses that are most in need now, perhaps, in the short term, but also those businesses that were completely viable before lockdown that can't trade at all during the pandemic but that will be viable afterwards? Do we need a specific hibernation scheme for businesses like those, and should you be targeting support, Minister, to businesses like certain businesses in hospitality, some businesses in tourism, cultural businesses that may not be able to open at all, until we reach a point where we have a vaccine? I would put it to the Minister, Deputy Presiding Officer, that if he can't do everything—and I understand that perhaps he can't—is it now time to do the things that need doing most in terms of business support?

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her questions and also thank Helen Mary Jones for the very constructive part that she has played, and indeed other Members of the Chamber have played, in shaping the economic resilience fund during the various phases of this support?

I'd like to just make a number of points at the outset. First of all, as Members are aware, the Welsh Government is offering the most generous and comprehensive package of support to businesses anywhere in the United Kingdom, but as Helen Mary Jones has rightly identified, it would simply not be possible for any Government to support every single business with both emergency cash for operating costs and with support for business development, and therefore we do have to approach this in a targeted way, as Helen Mary Jones identified, and I'll come back to that point.

The second important issue to raise with perceptions of the third phase of the economic resilience fund is that there are two parts to it, and the majority part remains open, and I'd urge businesses to apply—if they're looking for emergency cover for their businesses—for the £200 million lockdown business fund. The £100 million business development grant was for development projects, and I'll come back to the reason why they were different. But the third point to make regarding the overall package of support is that there has been some misunderstanding of the purposes of the development grants, and it does appear that a number of businesses have been attempting to access emergency support either through, first and foremost, the development grant online system, or through both the non-domestic rates-linked grants and the development grants. As a result of this, we've already been able to sift a significant number of applications and we've found that there will be a rejection rate that will be quite high because a significant number of businesses who submitted applications on that Friday did so without supporting evidence, or did so without a strong plan for the development of their business, or because they didn't provide any cash-flow data, and were simply after support for cash flow, or because their projects were ineligible, for example because a number of applicants were applying for deposits on holiday lets.

We ensured that it was a targeted approach, and all of the guidance pointed businesses to the fact that it was targeted, it was for the purpose of developing their businesses, creating jobs or securing jobs. They had to comply with our principles of value for money, they had to be of a high quality, and they had to enhance the business prospects for the medium and the long term. Now, I can tell Members that there is a further £300 million that the finance Minister has earmarked in principle for business support in the first quarter of 2021. In addition, there remains unutilised budget from the original round of the COVID-19 NDR-linked grants, and officials are working very closely at the moment with local authority treasurers to confirm how much of this funding remains unused across the 22 local authorities and what options might be available to potentially repurpose it. I can also tell Members that, with regard to the £100 million development grant fund, we will appraise, as a priority, all of those applications that have come in. I am currently seeking further advice on the next steps in relation to what we do with the development grant fund, and I hope to make a further statement in the very near future. 

But just in answer to some of the other points that Helen Mary Jones raised—capacity within Business Wales. We constantly review capacity within Business Wales. We increase capacity when necessary and decrease. I'm not so much concerned about human resource capacity as I am with the way that those people who operate on the helpline service are being treated by some—a tiny minority. But I have had reported to me that some of the Business Wales helpline staff have been verbally abused, and I'm sure nobody in this Chamber would condone such behaviour. I know that this an incredibly tense and anxious time for business owners, but it's important that we also respect those people who are trying to help us, and so I would urge all people who are calling the Business Wales helpline to be courteous and to be respectful to the Business Wales staff.

Then, finally, to the point that Helen Mary Jones made—again, an incredibly valuable point—about the importance of considering how we hibernate businesses that may not be able to operate through the winter and until next year, but which we know are viable businesses. That, of course, can be provided through an extension of the job retention scheme and, of course, with any support from the Welsh Government that would aim to plug any gaps or to provide an additional safety net to complement the JRS. But, of course, that does require the UK Government to agree to a further extension of the job retention scheme, and, for that matter, a further extension of the self-employment income support scheme until such a time that parts of the economy can truly reopen safely, and whether that's with an array of vaccines or through further adaptations and through suppressing the virus to a level where we can do so. But it's absolutely essential that the UK Government considers, as a matter of urgency, a further extension to JRS and the self-employment income support scheme. 

Can I thank the Minister for his answer just now? It was very comprehensive and it's what I think I and many other Members need in terms of answering queries from constituents. And can I thank Helen Mary Jones for putting in the question that she has done? I also think it's very disappointing that there are people being abusive to Business Wales staff. I understand people's frustrations, but they shouldn't be taken out, of course, on the people trying to help them. 

From my perspective, there has been quite a bit of confusion, Minister, from businesses and amongst local authorities. And I'm aware, in some instances, local authorities have received various guidance—sometimes on the same day, on the same issue—so I think there are some lessons to be learnt for next phases. And I'm aware that some local authorities have taken different application processes in very different ways, so I think there are some real lessons to learn in that regard going forward. 

I noticed, Minister, Cardiff University has estimated that the Welsh Government has £1 billion left to be allocated from funds to fight COVID-19, and they've looked at the £4.4 billion from the UK Government, and the amount reallocated from existing Welsh Government budgets. Can you confirm that that is the case in your opinion, or do you believe that Cardiff University have got this incorrect? And if it is, why is the Welsh Government perhaps not committing this money now to support businesses now, rather than leaving it back for a later date? The UK Government has also, of course, given the certainty by guaranteeing at least £1.1 billion via consequentials before the end of this year. If that's not enough, and I know that the supplementary budget is coming up, what more can be reallocated from existing budgets to ensure that businesses get the support that they need now, before the winter, rather than giving it to them when it's too late? And briefly and finally, given that there is ring-fenced funding for tourism and hospitality businesses, concern is being raised that, if a business in receipt of the NDR grant, they are precluded from applying for the discretionary grant. So, if you didn't address that in the earlier question—I was drastically making notes—can you perhaps address that point as well?

Can I thank Russell George—

Minister.

Yes. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank Russell George for his questions, and say that I am sorry for any misunderstanding of the purpose of the development grant fund? We attempted to make as clear as we possibly could on the Business Wales website the purpose of that fund and the eligibility criteria and what was required in order to make an application. Unfortunately, in spite of that, it appears that, perhaps through desperation, a significant number of businesses nonetheless made applications that did not meet the criteria, that were not supported by any satisfactory documentary evidence of need for developments. And so, as a consequence, the fund was overwhelmed and paused. But we will scrutinise and interrogate each and every application on the basis of ensuring that, through a qualitative approach, we support those businesses with the best ideas and the best proposals. And as I've already said to Helen Mary Jones, I'm hoping to make a further statement in the very near future regarding the appraisals of the current applications and the next steps.

The £1 billion that Russell George referred to really I think is a matter for the finance Minister to address. But what I can say to Members is that the finance Minister has kindly agreed to put aside, in preparation for quarter 1 of 2021, an additional £300 million. And of course we are awaiting clarity on any further consequentials from the UK Government as a result of recent announcements. And as the First Minister has already said on a number of occasions, any consequentials relating directly to business support will be provided as business support when they come through to Wales. And I think it's important again for Members to remember that we are operating in a crisis, and yet, during the course of this crisis, throughout this crisis, we've been able to support businesses with the most generous package of support anywhere in the UK, utilising the ERF as a fund and a system to plug holes and to provide safety nets that otherwise would not exist.

And on the very important point that Russell George raised lastly, those businesses that have been unsuccessful in getting discretionary grants because they've had NDR-related grants, well, the discretionary grants that we've made available through local government are designed to support those businesses that do not occupy properties—businesses that operate from shared premises and so forth. And that's to ensure that we capture as many businesses, microbusinesses in particular, as we possibly can do.

Thank you, Minister. I just want to start by thanking Helen Mary Jones for giving this Senedd another opportunity, following on from yesterday, to get across to the Government just how important it is to reopen phase 3 of the economic resilience fund—the business development grant side of it, as you've outlined, which is different to the other—and to reopen it quickly, Minister. Because businesses across south-east Wales and our country were relying on this fund. Businesses of all sizes spent weeks preparing for this fund, as we said yesterday, and they were relying on it, even though they were issued with new guidance for the fund on the morning that it was opened, so that, obviously, took time. And then, within 24 hours, the fund had closed. This indicates to me that there is a severe lack of oversight as to the need for this fund and the demand that was going to happen. And taking out what you've just said of the people who applied for it for the wrong reasons, not only were they told that it had been shut within 24 hours, they were told that, instead of the £150,000 that they were trying to apply for, they would then be just signposted off to trying to apply for £2,000, which obviously is not going to cut it. I was delighted to see the support from across the Chamber yesterday after I'd raised the issue for this urgent statement—even from your own party, people recognise that it's important to reopen this fund in particular. I welcome what the First Minister said in response, saying the Government would look at reopening it and, as you've said, there are moneys available if you decided to do that. So, I welcome that as well, Minister. 

And due to support, am I now right to assume that it's not a matter of 'if' it will be reopened, but now a matter of 'when'? And when will you be making this statement on the business development grant? Because there are so many confused people out there that are stressed and didn't even get their e-mails answered from Business Wales. So, I'd like you to look into that, and perhaps give those businesses that were refused better advice in the future. But I thank you for your extra clarity this afternoon, Minister. Thank you.

Can I thank Laura Anne Jones for her questions? And, as I've already said, the applications that have come in were huge in volume. Many businesses, unfortunately, applied for support not because they were seeking support for a development, as such, that would secure jobs, that would enhance business prospects, but instead because they were seeking emergency cash. Now, that is not the purpose of this fund, and I don't think it's fair to compare the £150,000 maximum grant available for business development with the emergency support, which albeit was less, because the two funds, or the two parts of the fund, operate for different reasons. One part—the emergency cash part—is intended to support businesses through the firebreak; the other—the business development grants—is intended to support business development for the longer term, and that's vitally important. It's vitally important to distinguish between the purpose of those two parts of the fund. 

Now, in terms of next steps, I've already said to Members I'll be making an announcement in the very near future, once we have appraised the business development grant fund. I'm seeking further advice from officials regarding the next steps, but I think it's absolutely right and proper that we scrutinise those applications that have come in so far, that we learn from them, and that we tailor support for the purpose that it's designed. And the design of the ERF business development grant scheme was to ensure that businesses have a longer term future, that they don't just survive through the firebreak, but that they are able to thrive in the future. And I can point to a number of excellent applications that have come in that demonstrate how some businesses did approach it in the most responsible way with excellent applications, and those businesses that missed out, I'd say, 'Hold on to your documentation; there is £300 million that's going to be made available.' 

Laura Anne Jones asks about when we will be opening up a future fund. Well, quarter 1 of next year is when we intend to be able to support businesses. But we want to make sure that businesses are able to develop the best possible proposals to submit to Welsh Government. And one such proposal—I can't name the business, I'm afraid; it's located in Denbigh—that has been successful already through the development grant fund submitted an excellent application that dealt with the grounds of their property that would enable them to hold more weddings and we were able to support them with an offer of a grant at a 72 per cent intervention rate. I think it's important that I mention the intervention rate, because there is also, unfortunately, the belief that businesses are able to, on every single occasion, secure the maximum amount of grant, but instead we're looking at intervention rates associated with value for money for the taxpayer. 

Thank you very much, Minister.