Item 8 on the agenda this afternoon is a debate on the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee's report on the impact of the COVID-19 outbreak on the creative industries. I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion, Helen Mary Jones.

Motion NDM7461 Helen Mary Jones

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the report of the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee, 'Impact of the COVID-19 outbreak on the creative industries', laid in the Table Office on 17 July 2020.

Motion moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm very pleased to rise today to recommend this report to the Senedd. It is undoubtedly the case that COVID-19 has had a terrible, devastating effect across our national life, and it's had that effect nowhere worse than on the creative industries, which depend so much on face-to-face communication, whether that is to record a television programme or to undertake some element of investigative journalism or to be responsible for the hair and make-up in a television studio. The committee responded quickly to the situation, and I'm grateful to all the witnesses who came forward. I'm very grateful too, actually, to the Deputy Minister, who has maintained a positive dialogue with the committee throughout this crisis. 

I'm very conscious of time, Dirprwy Lywydd, and I want to hear from others in this debate, so I just want to touch on a few headlines, given, of course, that the report is available to Members, and to begin by concentrating on the pressures that the crisis has brought onto a very vulnerable workforce, the performers, of course, but also the technicians, the hair and make-up artists, all the people who work in this very important industry. Many of them, of course, are freelancers, and one of the things that the committee considered was the very real risk of losing them. This is a very mobile workforce; these are people who can work, many of them, anywhere in the world, and the impact on our ability to build back our cultural life, and indeed our economy, were that to have happened would have been devastating.

We're very grateful for the funding that has already been provided by Welsh Government to freelancers and were very pleased to see extra resources announced today for the cultural sector partly for that purpose. I'm hoping that the Deputy Minister can confirm in his contribution to this debate that those are additional new resources into his budget line. But I also hope that he'll acknowledge that there have been some issues with problems in the distribution of the freelancing fund, and I hope that he can reassure us that lessons have been learned for the next phase.

We also identified in the course of our work real issues with diversity in the whole cultural sector, including in the workforce, and this was acknowledged broadly across the sector and many witnesses highlighted it to us, hence our recommendation 18—recommendation 8, I apologise. Creative Wales funding must support changing that lack of diversity, and organisations need to be able to demonstrate what they are doing to address this deep-seated challenge.

We looked in the course of our inquiry at the role of public sector broadcasters and, of course, that was thrown into very sharp relief, the importance of accurate reporting about different situations as the crisis has proceeded, different perspectives from different Governments within the UK. It really has shown how important effective public broadcasting is. We're glad that the Welsh Government has agreed, as we have recommended, to respond to the Ofcom consultation on the future of public service broadcasting. I'm hoping that the Deputy Minister may be able to tell us a little more this afternoon about what that response to that consultation is likely to say, but if he's unable to do so today, we will of course have further dialogue with him on that matter.

The committee has taken further evidence since this report on the impact of the crisis on live arts and live music venues. The additional support from Welsh Government for music venues has been really warmly welcomed, and we as a committee very much appreciate that. But there have been some issues with paying those grants out in a timely way and I hope, again, that the Deputy Minister may be able to report back to us on progress there. That sector is also asking for a framework on how reopening can happen—a route map, a plan—similar to that which has of course been provided for the television and film sector. We will be preparing a further report on this matter, and I hope that when we do so, the Deputy Minister will be able to respond to that request so that people can see the way out of the crisis.

I want to share with the Chamber, Dirprwy Lywydd, some very positive messages that we received in our evidence about Creative Wales and how it's responded to the crisis. This of course was a very new body; it had literally only just come into being when the crisis hit, and witnesses have said that it's responded very innovatively, very flexibly and very responsively. Welsh Government must continue to interrogate how it works with stakeholders to ensure that co-production, working with the sector, is embedded. This is not about consultation; it needs to be about working with the organisations most affected, and as a committee, we very much hope that the Government will ensure that the voices of smaller cultural organisations are heard in the process. We realise that it is more of a challenge, but we feel that it is essential.

So, with those few brief remarks, Dirprwy Lywydd, I would like to commend this report to the Senedd. I look forward to the contributions of others and I hope I will have a little time to respond to the debate. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I think this is a very important report. Our creative industries are a growth area for us and an area where we have a track record of excellence going back at least to the 1980s, when S4C was established. And it's something that we were on the verge of taking to another level as well, and focusing it was one of our key growth areas to bring greater prosperity to our economy. So, there's no doubt that COVID has been a real setback to the potential. Helen Mary mentioned that there is a danger that some of the structural capacity could be lost, and I think that for an economy like Wales, having developed this sector so carefully over the years, and done so much to attract many producers here, it would be a great pity if, when we recover from COVID, we find that we're not in the best position to take advantage of the return to some level of normality.

So, I think it's very important that the committee and the Government and the whole sector, as Helen Mary said, work together to ensure that we have an excellent plan to get back and take advantage of the opportunities that will come as soon we move on from COVID. I think a key element is the need to work. There are generous schemes in place—the furlough scheme, the Welsh Government has invested a lot of money, and used money as well from the UK Government that's come in addition—and there are some schemes that do seem to be very effective, delivered with a minimum of bureaucracy, and that's to be welcomed, but people need to work. And it's when productions are in operation, for instance, that the whole chain then works, down to the freelance make-up artists and everyone in between—the actors that also do other jobs, but if they're performing, they need these opportunities. So, all those things are really, really important.

One of the problems is the lack of insurance, or at least insurance at a reasonable cost, and we've heard this is not only a problem for productions—tv productions and film productions—but it's also a problem for music venues and theatres. This is another area where I think the Welsh Government and the UK Government obviously, at that scale, need to look at what can be done to perhaps enable that some of the resources that we are providing are done to enable work, rather than to be able to protect people and keep them at home, and at least not force them into another area of work where they may permanently then leave the creative industries. So, I think that's really important.

I just want to make one final point, and this goes right across our evidence gathering in terms of creative industries, our great cultural organisations and the various theatre companies out there. Those that have diversified their income base most in the last five or six years, often in response to Government urging, have found themselves often in the most vulnerable position, whilst those that are reliant most on public grants have tended to have those grants preserved, and we're thankful for that. But, of course, it's people that have shifted more to commercial income and a range of income sources that have been hit because of the lack of activity. This is true also in areas of publishing where the advertising revenue has been lost. So, I will conclude my remarks and just say I'm really pleased with the way the committee works very cross party, and itself engages with the sector very well, and that's why we have such an excellent evidence base for this and our other reports.

I would like to congratulate you on a really excellent report, blessedly short as well at only 19 pages—fantastic—but really, really packed with information. This is really excellent work.

I'd like to pay tribute to the public service broadcasters for keeping going throughout the pandemic, and providing the crucial information we all need to find out exactly what is happening. If we compare what's happened in this country with what happened in the United States, where all sorts of wild rumours and false news were allowed to take off because there isn't a core public broadcasting service that everybody can draw on, and that is potentially very, very dangerous. We have to acknowledge that ITV and Channel 4 have been seriously affected by the loss of advertising revenue. We are at risk of losing them, simply because they could be overwhelmed by these big brothers, Amazon and Netflix, which have, obviously, cleaned up with everybody being forced to stay at home. So, that is a really serious problem for our cultural future.

But, I do also pay tribute to Creative Wales, because that's a consistent line through it, that they have really reacted well in the way that they used the small amount of grant money that they were given to really put the money where it was going to be really effectively used. So, I think that's really great.

I think the film industry and, indeed, television drama production is rolling back, and that's very good news for everybody who's involved in film and television, and there are lots of indications of that. And that's very good, because they're better able to function within the regulations. But, there's a huge amount of desperation out there.

The £7 million the Welsh Government made available to fill the massive gaps that the UK Government failed to offer freelancers who couldn't prove that they'd been freelancers for two or three years is very, very serious. As Mick Antoniw said earlier in a question to the Minister, if we're talking about 250,000 people, somebody's worked out that if we gave them each £2,500 it would add up to £40 million, and we clearly haven't got those sorts of resources. There have always been people who drift off out of the industry when they haven't got work, the so-called resting actors who are brickies or taxi drivers, but that work doesn't exist either, so I think it is really, really desperate for those who haven't got work and can't turn to alternative sources of work. For people like musicians, there is no light at the end of the tunnel at the moment, there really isn't, and that is a very, very serious problem, particularly with the amount that we really applaud our music and our musical culture—it's very, very serious indeed.

I think that there are very good examples, which I spoke about in a previous debate, of organisations changing the way they do things, like the Sherman and Rubicon Dance, but how possible is it? It seems totally impossible for musicians at the moment to operate at all, unless we can get them into providing entertainment in care homes and other places like that, where people are depressed for different reasons. Maybe that is a way in which we could give people work rather than just grants, which won't go very far. Thank you very much.

We welcome the conclusions and recommendations of this report, and we're grateful that the Welsh Government accepts the recommendations within it, although there is still much work to be done, of course. There is no doubt that the creative industries have been hit very hard by COVID-19, and that the Government must help the sector to rebuild. I do, therefore, welcome the statement made earlier today outlining further support for the sector. This is a high-salary industry that is rooted in our communities. The creative industries are one of the fastest growing sectors in Wales, with an annual turnover of £1.9 billion, and it's important to bear in mind the huge contribution that the sector makes to Welsh life and the Welsh economy. 

If I could just turn to three specific aspects this afternoon—first of all, public service broadcasters in Wales. Now, certainly, the crisis has demonstrated their value, as others have already mentioned. However, they are facing unprecedented challenges as they see reductions in income and revenue, and huge efforts are required to ensure that these institutions are there for the future. I do welcome the fact that the Welsh Government will be responding to the Ofcom consultation on the future of public service broadcasting, and I look forward to seeing exactly what will be contained within that response. The pandemic has highlighted the need to devolve broadcasting. There are many arguments for that, and well-being and public health have come to the fore as strong arguments—things that weren't given much attention until the current crisis struck. 

To turn to digital media, I would like to mention Golwg360. This is a news website that is funded through the Welsh Books Council, with a figure of £200,000 available per annum over a period of four years. Now, this figure has remained static since the service was established back in 2009. There's been no increase in the grant, although costs have, clearly, increased and there's an expectation for them to do more as technology and the journalistic landscape change and develop. I do think that we need to ensure that there is sufficient support available to them in moving forward. We do need to bear in mind their invaluable, independent contribution to journalism in Wales.

Turning, finally, to another aspect that is a cause of concern at the moment. It's very disappointing to hear once again that whilst cinemas, bingo halls, museums and galleries are all able to reopen, our theatres can't do so—they remain closed. We need a clear plan as a matter of urgency in order to reopen our theatres in Wales, and that needs to be done safely, of course. We saw open-air events that were very successful, such as the one held by Theatr Clwyd over the summer months, and the sector does feel that it's important that we maintain that momentum over the next few months and that we do put in place a full framework for reopening. We can't wait until the spring to restart these experimental events.

We know that there is a right for 15 individuals to meet indoors, and 30 outdoors, for a planned event, and professionals within theatres are very aware of the guidance. One could argue that theatres are well placed to effectively manage events, be that indoors or outdoors, and there's a real desire there for this. A survey has indicated that 67 per cent of people who usually go to the theatre would consider attending events if theatres were to reopen with social distancing, and 94 per cent had shown an interest in events being staged in the open air, even in the winter months. So, it's clear that there is demand to reopen our theatres, and I would like your comments on that, if that's possible.

There is no doubt that excellent work is ongoing. There is some positive work happening. Dawns i Bawb is one example of that that's located in my constituency. There are so many companies and individuals contributing energetically to maintain and sustain our cultural lives, despite the numerous challenges, and we need to bear that in mind.

Rhianon Passmore. 

Sorry, Llywydd—can you hear me?

Yes.

I'm having internet difficulties. I welcome, of course, the work of the committee, the Chair, and also, hopefully, the response from the Minister, Dafydd Elis-Thomas. As Members of the Senedd will know, the value of the live music industry across Wales, in all its genres, is £5.2 billion across the UK, and its equivalency in Wales is of equal importance to both Wales's creativity internationally, as brand Wales, and also the economy. So, I do very much welcome this report by Professor Paul Carr of the University of South Wales, and I suggest Members also read his previous report, 'Land of Song'. 

I agree both with recommendations 2 and 3 wholeheartedly—that we have a co-ordinated approach and, as across Europe and New Zealand, a dedicated performance reopening strategy, alongside a sustainable development strategy for all of the music industries in our music sector. I am in no doubt that Wales, the land of song, would then be well placed. We need to start to co-construct together, as it states within this report, with our stakeholders also, a new national music strategy for Wales with an underpinning music education plan and a funded network of music support services across Wales, to safeguard the music performers of the future. And so there has never been a more important time, as we approach this perfect storm of COVID-19 impacts on the sector and the looming issues of EU exit. As has been said by Siân Gwenllian, if cinemas can open, then I'm sure that limited and mitigated reopening of theatres and halls is also needing careful consideration.

The sector has been facing real challenges for some time, let us not forget, and after a decade of UK Government austerity, this has also severely impacted the musical and cultural hinterland of Wales. And of course, the pandemic has given us more agony with the economically regressive consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic. So, I also welcome the £53 million and the £18 million that the Welsh Government has put in place within the cultural recovery fund, and I also welcome the £3.5 million announcement from today in regard to the support that has just been announced. But I would also like to state briefly, if I may, Deputy Llywydd, that this is all very well and good; what we will have to have as well is an ability to be able to rehearse at ground level. It's been very difficult approaching the different guidance and documents that have come out of Welsh Government, so I very much welcome any amendment and clarification within those pieces of guidance, which I believe is now going to be happening.

It is absolutely imperative, to close, that our male voice choirs, that our choral societies, that our historic brass bands, who currently are unable to perform, whilst the likes of those in education, within the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama and across our professional orchestras, are able to rehearse—I would plead with Welsh Government: please look at the evidence in regard to performance around singing and around wind instrumentation. We have to do this, not just for Wales, but for the whole amount of the sector that is there, desperately looking for us, now, to lead the way, and I'm sure that that can be done. Thank you.

Can I now call the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, Dafydd Elis-Thomas?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. First of all, I will make a commitment to all of you who have taken part in the debate and have raised a great number of points that we will respond in writing in an appropriate fashion, rather than I go over my time—I think I have five minutes to respond to this debate—if that's acceptable to you, and then we can continue that discussion. Could I thank the Chair of the Committee, particularly, for her opening speech? I would like to confirm what she has said—and I say this, of course, because I appear before the committee on a regular basis—and thank her for the courtesy, every time, and for the co-operation.

So, I will respond to one issue that she raised. I have looked again over the written statement that was published this morning by the Welsh Government, and the word 'additional', I am pleased to say, occurs four times in that statement. So, the £10.7 million in funding is additional to what we had provided previously. And that's very important to me, as Deputy Minister with responsibility in this area, and it's very important to the Government, because as the First Minister said so clearly in discussing international issues in a previous statement today, culture is a key part of the Welsh brand, and maintaining and developing that brand is a duty for all of us. 

There were a number of kind references made to Creative Wales. I was very pleased when I was offered this post three years ago that it was an opportunity for me to act on a recommendation that was part of the manifesto of Welsh Labour, and was supported across the parties, namely to create Creative Wales and to create it as a body that was independent, but within the Government, using, as I've explained previously to the Senedd, the model that we had developed for Cadw—again, three years ago—namely, that it was an executive body, but it was independent, with a board and a chair. The first meeting has been held—I couldn't attend because there was a tourism crisis in another direction, but I hope I can join in their next meeting. There is a board of people who have diverse talents from every part of Wales and with balanced backgrounds in terms of ethnicity and so forth on that board, and that's very important to ensure that the creativity in our communities is reflected.

Now, everyone who has spoken has referred to the detrimental impact of the pandemic on the cultural sector, and what's happened on the ground, as we know, has been very painful for individuals and for audiences. One is concerned about how we can recover audiences when that is possible. But what's very important and interesting to me is the fact that there are developments that have shown how resilient our Welsh organisations are, even during this emergency. Reference was made very positively to the Welsh media, and if there was ever an argument for the importance of ensuring media where the people of Wales, journalists and commentators can speak to Welsh audiences, this is the period that has shown the importance of that.

I do note the comments made about Golwg360, and as some of you know, I have been considering how we can develop a corresponding medium in English so that there is a new framework for independent journalism available in English, as well as what we have in Welsh—not funded directly by the Government, but at arm's length.

And two further points I wanted to make: we are operating through the cultural recovery fund, and this fund will continue to support freelancers in particular. We realised that we hadn't provided adequately for the flow of freelancers, particularly here in Cardiff, because there are so many people in the cities who have been working on a freelance basis over the years, and working for all kinds of companies in all the different kinds of sectors that are part of our culture. And therefore, that's why the £3.5 million has been added to this fund, the freelancers' fund, so that we can take the total targeted at freelancers to £10.5 million. And this funding, we hope, will continue to transform the situation.

Could I emphasise another thing that we've done, namely to establish the cultural contract? This is something that has been on my mind for many years, because it's very important that, if we do provide public funding, we can also expect a response that is creative for that funding, not just maintaining organisations and not just maintaining buildings, even though that's important, but ensuring that we do have a cultural contract that works alongside the pledge to freelance workers so that we can see issues that are treated creatively growing out of this crisis.

We are working very closely with the UK Government—

Could I ask the Minister to wind up, please?

Yes, I'm winding up now.

Thank you.

I just want to confirm this £500 million.

There's £500 million for the restarting film and television productions scheme, which is vital. And because I was once in the role that the Deputy Presiding Officer currently holds, I will be quiet. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much. [Laughter.] Can I call on Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate?

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I think the number and the breadth of responses to this debate, the contributions, show that there's a broad consensus across this Chamber about how important the creative industries are to our national life and about how very important it is that we continue to support and maintain them through this difficult time.

I can't possibly respond to everything that everybody has said. I think it's interesting that a number of contributors have commented on the need for a path back to live performance, and that's something that I hope that the Minister will take from this debate today. Nobody is thinking that we can go back to live performances right now, but the sector needs to understand what that path back looks like. And the points that have been made by Rhianon Passmore, Jenny and others about the possibility of socially distanced gigs—there are ways to do things safely. And this ties into the points that David Melding made about people in the sector wanting to work. They need to work, they need to use their skills. These are not people, on the whole, who go into their jobs to make a fortune; they go into it to do what they love and to contribute to our cultural life. And while it is important that we support them financially, the clear message coming to us as a committee is that those people want to be active again.

David Melding was right, of course, again to highlight the insurance issues. And I'm glad, in the Government's response to our report, that those are being seriously looked at, because that will be, potentially, one of the biggest blockages to getting the sector open again. And David's point about those organisations that have diversified, that have sought other sources of income and, actually, ironically, being more fragile now than perhaps those who haven't succeeded, is I know something that the Minister will wish to respond to.

I wanted to thank Jenny Rathbone for her kind words about the committee's work, and that's very much appreciated. And a number of people have also commented, as Jenny did, about how well Creative Wales has responded. It's a huge challenge to a new organisation and a new way of working, and those positive comments were definitely borne out by what we heard in our evidence.

Siân Gwenllian touched on a number of very important issues. She's right to highlight how much work there is to do and the importance of this sector to the economy. I think we all know that it's important for many other reasons, but it is important to our economy, and David Melding mentioned that too. And a number of contributors commented on the importance of public broadcasting, and we will look to see how the Minister responds to the Ofcom consultation.

Siân mentioned Golwg360, and then the Minister, of course, refers to that as a potential model for support for the press in Wales more broadly, and that's certainly something that we as a committee will wish to pursue.

It is clear—Rhianon Passmore's contribution and Siân Gwenllian's—there is an audience out there. Not everybody is ready to go back to live performances, but some people most certainly are, and we need to have that road map, and I ask the Minister again for that.

I'm grateful to the Minister for his commitment today to provide a detailed response to some of the issues that have been raised. I am very pleased that it is new money. I like the word 'ychwanegol'—'extra'. I'm very, very pleased that that's confirmed, and his comments about the importance of the creative industries to the Welsh brand and how we are seen internationally.

I will bring my remarks to a close now, Dirprwy Lywydd; I can see that I'm running out of time. There is so much more that one could say, but I will just end by commending this report to the Senedd and committing to the sector that we as a committee will continue to work with them through this difficult time to make sure, as David Melding said, that an industry that's so important to us is there when this is all over. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections, therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the committee's report is noted.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.