10. & 11. The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 4) (Wales) Regulations 2020 and The Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Restrictions) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2020

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 7:23 pm on 17 November 2020.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 7:23, 17 November 2020

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I won’t trouble myself with the deliberately offensive comments of the last speaker, and the factually incorrect comments.

I thank the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for their scrutiny and for the summary of that scrutiny in his contributions. We continue to take seriously the points they raise and it does lead to changes in drafting. I think it’s a good thing that we do then respond to the merits points that they raise. Even if we don’t always agree there is, I think, a clear explanation of the differing positions, and I think that’s important.

I note the agreement from the Welsh Conservatives on the restrictions in respect of Denmark. The four Governments within the United Kingdom have met again. I participated in those meetings. We’ve had conversations between our respective chief medical officer departments. We’ve agreed to maintain and review the position in Denmark in another two weeks’ time. That’s because we should then have more evidence about how successful those restrictions in Denmark have been, but also to have more evidence on the epidemiology and the sharing of information. I should say the Government of Denmark, I think, have been responsible and very good partners in identifying the issue and acting promptly and working with us and other countries.

I find myself in an odd position with Conservatives who were originally opposed to travel restrictions but who are now concerned over the lifting of the restrictions that they opposed in the first place. But, as Andrew R.T. Davies knows, we set out previously and indeed in my contribution again today that coronavirus is seeded across the country. We said that before the firebreak, when that was doubted by Conservatives. We then saw rates increase in every county of the country despite the stay at home measures that people observed.

The national measures are easy to follow. That's the advice we had from our scientific committee, the technical advisory cell. That was set out in the report beforehand, but also in the regular summaries that we're providing each week as well. That also set out that local restrictions had made a difference, but that a network of different local measures were no longer coherent, and people were finding it more difficult to follow the guidance. And, again, we need to move away from a wholly rules-based approach and actually get to where people behave, and encourage people to think differently and behave differently, because that is going to be essential to us in terms of our combating of the virus before, in the months ahead—and it is months ahead—we do expect to get a vaccine.

On Rhun ap Iorwerth's points, a number of points he made are really policy questions in terms of the support. Of course, we're having a debate tomorrow with a range of suggestions, but the £500 payment applications have started this week. They're going to be backdated to the start of the firebreak, 23 October, so progress is being made. I expect to make more progress on testing policy over the next week or so, and I'll confirm that in a statement to Members. Now, that, of course, doesn't require a change in the regulations; that's actually a policy and implementation matter.

In terms of the longer term challenges, we do need to see—. We said before that it'll take two to three weeks from the end of the firebreak to understand where we are, and then to see if we do need to take additional measures in any other part of Wales. And I tried to set that out again in opening today. So, it's not a matter that we have simply put from our minds. It's always possible we'll need to come back to this. And that brings me back to Christmas. And, again, I note what Rhun ap Iorwerth said in his contribution, that this is a dangerous pandemic. This is indeed a dangerous pandemic. It's a highly infectious virus that is taking lives in every single community across the country. The vaccine is in the future. It is not in the here and now. The choices we make in the here and now will come back to us in the next few weeks. So, the choices we make about the people we see and the contact we have with them, the time we spend with them, make a huge difference. The vaccine is not a cause to loosen our grip and throw away the gains that we've made. And our foresight, and looking ahead to the festive season at the end of the year, should make us all think about what we're prepared to do, because if we can't collectively do the right thing together, then, actually, we may find ourselves in a position that, before we get to the middle of December, the virus may have taken off again and caused such harm that there may be a need to intervene further. That is not what the Government wants to see happen. We want to see people take responsibility and to think about their choices, to measure their own risk and the risk they present to other people, because if we can't do that together, then we will be faced and potentially forced into making really difficult and unpleasant choices. And I do not want to intervene in people's lives any more than I have to to keep the country safe.

So, I thank Members for their contributions in today's debate. I commend both sets of regulations to Members and ask you to support them.