3. Will the Minister provide an update on Welsh Government plans to tackle the issue of second homes across Wales? OQ55860

Diolch, Siân. We are taking an evidence-based, holistic approach, giving proper consideration to the broad range of interests involved. Across Government, we continue to review all the available evidence. Ministerial colleagues, my officials and I have met with a number of Senedd Members, local authorities and academics to further develop our whole-system response to the issues.

I'm not going to apologise for raising this issue again. I'm very grateful to you for the recent discussions between our party and your Government, and I look forward  to joining in a virtual meeting between the First Minister and representatives of the Hawl i Fyw Adra campaign next week. But it's one thing to have meetings and assessments and to make the right noises in terms of sympathising and understanding the problem, but it's another thing to take action to prevent the increase in second homes in so many of our areas in the west. Plaid Cymru has outlined some steps that could be taken immediately. So, does your Governments intend to take any specific steps to change the law in relation to planning or finance between now and the Senedd elections in May?

Thank you, Siân. As you know, it's a really complicated problem that we do have a lot of sympathy with, but there isn't a simple solution. We cannot take primary legislative powers between now and the election because we've simply run out of Senedd time in order to do that. So, that just physically isn't possible to do. We have a number of things that we really wanted to get through in this Senedd term and those have all had to be dropped, and we're all pretty heartbroken about it. So, there's no point in my trying to pretend otherwise. There's no chance of us getting new primary legislation through on this point, or any other point, actually, other than those that have already started their passage through the Senedd.

We have already as you know done a large number of things in Wales, including differential land transaction charges and differential council tax regimes, and so on. You'll know that, in the cross-party group that met with us, we're looking again at the data issues to see if we can isolate particular types of housing that we could take action on. It's actually much more complex than it first appears when you try to isolate which particular set of houses you're actually talking about, as you know. And so, I do look forward to the meeting with the First Minister and the campaign group, but it's much more complex than just changing the planning law, for example. So, there are a number of issues, as we discussed at great length in the group last time, that would need to be taken into account.

Can I say I share Siân Gwenllian's concern about second homes, especially when we have a homelessness problem, as we discussed earlier? I will again urge the ending of council tax exemption of houses registered for private holiday letting, which then get business rate exemption and that means people don't pay anything. That doesn't need primary legislation; that just needs action. But student accommodation and short-term lets for employment have been counted into second-home numbers on some lists. That's not particularly helpful. And you know in your own constituency that somebody came up with a third of the houses as being second homes when they're virtually all student accommodation. Does the Government know how many properties are second homes, i.e. used only part of the year or registered for holiday letting?

Thank you, Mike, and the straightforward answer to the question is 'no', because we have no way of distinguishing data for houses such as that. It's very difficult to know whether a house is let out to somebody on a permanent basis, on a holiday-let basis, on a partial holiday-let basis, or used by family and friends. For example, some second homes are permanently occupied by the children of the registered owner. That's quite commonplace in cities, for example, across Wales. There are very high levels of second-home ownership in both Swansea and Cardiff, which we don't have the data for, but it seems quite likely they are occupied by people who work in the cities in the week and go home somewhere else at the weekend. We also know that key workers right across west Wales have houses that they work from during the week and then go home somewhere else in Wales at the weekend. So, it's very, very hard to disaggregate the data in the simple way that you set out.

However, I have a lot of sympathy with the proposition about the small business rate relief not applying to some premises that have flipped, as the non-technical term is, from council tax to business rates as a result of letting out the property, and also what the thresholds for that are, and we are looking at the empirical evidence available to us to understand exactly what that would look like if we reversed it. That's a piece of work that's ongoing. I'm not yet in a position to say whether we will or won't be able to do that.

We have asked all of the authorities particularly affected by this to give us the evidence base that they have, and there are interesting nuances here. We've allowed up to 100 per cent council tax liability on second homes and long-term empty buildings, for example, but nobody has used the 100 per cent. Seven local authorities charge between 25 per cent and 50 per cent, and Powys has recently proposed a 75 per cent premium. So, we need to understand why they're not using the full extent of their powers, and there are a number of other empirical evidence pieces that we need to work through before we can come up with a policy that we know will actually do what we all want it to do. We all want it to have the effect that you set out, but I want to be sure that the policy will have that effect, and not some undesired effect around, for example, housing key workers close to hospitals and so on.