8. Plaid Cymru Debate: COVID-19 special support areas

– in the Senedd on 18 November 2020.

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(Translated)

The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the names of Gareth Bennett a Mark Reckless, amendments 2 and 4 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendment 3 in the name of Darren Millar. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendment 4 will be deselected.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:00, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

Welcome back. The Plaid Cymru debate is next, on COVID-19 special support areas. I call on Leanne Wood to move the motion.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7480 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes the continued high prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates within the south Wales valleys, with areas of the Cwm Taf Morgannwg and Aneurin Bevan health boards experiencing some of the highest rates in the UK.

2. Notes the research conducted in England showing that the effects of the pandemic has had a disproportionate impact on post-industrial communities in northern England and exacerbated the longstanding regional disparities of the British state.

3. Calls on the Welsh Government to designate areas experiencing higher prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates as COVID special support areas to qualify for additional support measures which would include:

a) additional support for those who are clinically vulnerable and cannot work from home;

b) a top up of the self-isolation grant to £800;

c) additional resources for test-and-trace teams and local authorities;

d) additional voluntary accommodation for those unable to self-isolate safely at home;

e) greater testing to identify asymptomatic cases;

f) priority for mass testing programmes and early roll out of any vaccine;

g) strengthened local public communication campaigns to facilitate adherence with public health guidelines:

h) additional resources for local COVID wardens for local authorities and COVID community champions to reiterate national COVID prevention messages;

i) additional protective measures in schools and on school transport, including mask wearing in classrooms;

j) additional resources for safe, affordable childcare;

k) additional measures to mitigate the digital divide and the disruption to education;

l) greater support for business and self-employed people opting to cease trading voluntarily on a temporary basis;

m) dispersal orders in town centres after pub closures.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Leanne Wood Leanne Wood Plaid Cymru 5:01, 18 November 2020

Diolch, Llywydd. Plaid Cymru wants extra support for communities that have been disproportionately hit by COVID. The areas with the highest rates of COVID cases are Merthyr, Neath Port Talbot, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Blaenau Gwent. The figures for Blaenau Gwent, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Merthyr have been higher than Liverpool's, which has benefited from extra support and priority for new technologies. This is nothing to do with Valleys culture, as some have claimed, but everything to do with poverty and low pay, poor, overcrowded housing, patterns of employment that mean fewer people can work from home, the dysfunctional social security system that doesn't support people in all cases to isolate, and a reliance upon family members and friends for childcare. So, before stereotyping, it would be helpful if people could understand these relevant facts.

It's undoubtedly good news that the firebreak seems to have had a positive impact on cases. Government should be making it as easy as possible for people to isolate. We must do all that we can to protect the most vulnerable, and we must also, as taxpayers, be prepared to support those who put everything at risk to help us all, and those are the front-line workers. And on that note, a small gesture of support that would be very welcome would be if Government agreed to pay for the funerals of all front-line workers who die of COVID. It's not right that their families should have to worry about finances at a time of grief. We have to recognise this and support them.

It's time now that we accept that schools are playing a higher role in transmission than was initially thought. The ONS modelling and data suggests that children are more likely to be the first case in a household. Children and young people are likely to be asymptomatic spreaders. Far more thought needs to be given as to how to control transmission in schools. There has to be regular mass testing to identify asymptomatic cases, and there must be additional support to recognise the difficulties in digital learning that are faced by families trying to combine childcare and teaching their children with full-time employment. Coming back to testing, in September, the Welsh Government promised that

'every school in Wales has been provided with testing kits. The rapid deployment of testing by NHS Wales will also support individual schools, where needed.'

What has happened to that? There is still no mass testing to keep schools safe and open. Teachers are complaining to me about the mental pressure that comes with having little communication from Government over the plan, or lack of a plan, to cancel the exams. Wouldn't it be a great idea to have a plan before we had the announcement? But teachers also feel unsafe. One said recently, 'I'm terrified of going to work, not knowing if people are asymptomatic. The stress is making me physically ill'. Teachers deserve better than this. 

Furthermore, given that households are one of the main transmission routes, especially in areas where overcrowding is an issue, Plaid Cymru believes that the time has come for the Government to establish separate isolation facilities for adults. Such facilities have been used in South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, Italy, Finland and many other countries with a much better record of suppressing the virus. Not only would such places offer a safe space for people to ride out a mild illness without spreading it to older or more vulnerable relatives who live with them, it would also offer the opportunity to monitor people and intervene earlier when they deteriorate. This early intervention is so important, and the existence of these facilities partly explains why Singapore has the lowest case fatality rate in the world, at 0.05 per cent.

There are many other interventions that we need in areas with high COVID prevalence. We need to do much more to protect those who are clinically extremely vulnerable, and we need to do much more on the financial side of all of this, both for individuals and for businesses. We must have a change in approach that recognises that the pandemic and the responses to the pandemic are being experienced differently and in a different way that reflects existing inequalities. It is no accident that high COVID rates mirror high deprivation rates, and the Government response must take better account of that.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:06, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

I have selected the five amendments to the motion. If amendment 1 is agreed, amendments 2, 3 and 4 will be deselected. If amendment 3 is agreed, amendment 4 will be deselected. The first amendment is in the name of Gareth Bennett, and I call on him to move the amendment tabled in his name—Gareth Bennett.

(Translated)

Amendment 1—Gareth Bennett, Mark Reckless

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes that areas that continue to have a high prevalence of COVID-19 have benefitted from the £5 billion financial support given to Wales during the COVID-19 pandemic from the UK Government.

2. Regrets that the Welsh Government has consistently taken a different COVID-19 strategy from the UK Government and that this has not helped the continued high infection rates prevalent within the south Wales valleys.

3. Believes that the best response to assist the areas most affected by COVID-19 in Wales is by having a united, UK response, led by the UK Government.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 moved.

Photo of Gareth Bennett Gareth Bennett UKIP 5:07, 18 November 2020

Diolch, Llywydd. Thanks to Plaid Cymru for tabling today's debate and thanks also, Llywydd, for accepting amendment 1, which I hereby move. The Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party will be voting against Plaid's motion today, not because we don't agree with some of the measures that they are proposing, but rather because we disagree with the focus of their motion. Plaid propose a whole raft of actions that they want the Welsh Government to take. Our stance is that many of the problems of dealing with the pandemic have been made worse by four different Governments across the UK doing different things. This has led to massive confusion. We badly need a unified UK response, led by the UK Government.

Currently, there are different sets of rules across so-called borders, such as between Wales and England—borders that have not really existed in any meaningful sense for hundreds of years. Then, the rules change, and they are different again in different parts of the UK. Some of the rules are not really rules, they are actually only guidance, which seems to mean the Welsh Government pretending that people can be prosecuted for doing something when, really, they can't. The very real danger is that all of this confusion will actually lead to an attitude from a large proportion of the general public of contempt for the rules. I'm afraid that this may be inevitable.

Turning to the amendments, we agree with some of what the Conservatives are saying, and some of what Labour are saying. Labour are, of course, essentially telling us that they have done everything right, while the Conservatives are calling for more action from Cardiff Bay. Can I first make the point that the Conservatives are certainly right on one thing, which is that the £5 billion that Wales has received from the UK Treasury has kept us afloat, and that we would have had no chance of getting through this crisis without it? So, it is being in the UK that has helped Wales here.

Can I also observe that COVID-19 is a crisis that does not just affect Wales? It affects the whole of the UK. So, surely it would be far easier to mitigate the problems of this crisis by having one strategy implemented across the UK. It is absurd to think that it helps matters by having different sets of politicians in four different places all dreaming up their own solutions and mitigations against this horrendous crisis. The absurdity is felt most keenly in the border areas, where local residents can see the palpable nonsense of shops and bars and restaurants being able to open in one place, but having to remain closed a couple of hundred metres away. Then, the following week, we have a complete reversal of the situation. Surely, this is no way to deal in a comprehensive manner with an international crisis.

Supporters of devolution may argue that such differences are what devolution is all about. I sometimes wonder if the Welsh Government thinks that it has to do something different to the UK Government, simply to justify its own existence. The problem is that it is the people who will get confused by all these different rules, and they are the ones who will needlessly suffer. The people have become the pawns in a dangerous game being played out by the committed devolutionists in Cardiff Bay and Holyrood. We haven't had a UK-wide crisis quite like this since the start of devolution 21 years ago, so it is very interesting to see how the whole crisis has unfolded.

The problems of devolution have not just involved the Scottish and Welsh Governments; they have also involved other tiers of Government such as directly elected mayors. We had the rather unsavoury spectacle of Andy Burnham, the Labour mayor of greater Manchester, openly stating that he would agree to go along with the UK Government's lockdown measures as long as his little fiefdom got a corresponding amount of compensation in the form of increased Government handouts. It becomes clear from Burnham's behaviour that we are heading towards a form of Government that is well known in the USA, which is known as pork-barrel politics: 'You'll get our vote as long as we get your money'. Unfortunately, though, more money for greater Manchester will mean less money for other places, so this kind of belligerence from local tin-pot despots like Andy Burnham doesn't do much for the UK as a whole. We had an even more absurd example of the downside of devolution with the clash between the Prime Minister and the mayor of Middlesbrough, one Andy Preston. In October, Mayor Preston disagreed with the Prime Minister over the lockdown measures and said:

'As things stand, we defy the Government.'

How can a town mayor be in any position to defy a UK Government? Andy Preston was elected mayor of Middlesbrough by getting 17,000 votes. The Prime Minister won a general election in which the Conservatives won almost 14 million votes. There is no democratic equivalence between the UK Prime Minister and the mayor of Middlesbrough. There is equally no democratic equivalence between a Welsh First Minister elected on a 45 per cent turnout of a 3 million population and a UK Prime Minister elected on a turnout of 67 per cent on a population of 65 million.

COVID-19 is a national emergency. It is becoming increasingly clear that, under devolution, the UK is unable to cope with a national emergency in a unified way. I sometimes wonder what would have happened during the second world war if we had had devolution. Just imagine: 'The First Minister leads protest against German and Italian prisoners of war coming to Wales.'

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:12, 18 November 2020

You're now out of time, Gareth Bennett. Can I ask you to draw your remarks to a conclusion?

Photo of Gareth Bennett Gareth Bennett UKIP

I will develop this point again. Just to conclude, this is the nonsense we now have with devolution. Can we please get rid of this constitutional chaos—

Photo of Gareth Bennett Gareth Bennett UKIP

(Translated)

Thank you, Lywydd.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

Thank you very much. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

I now call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to move formally amendments 2 and 4, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.

(Translated)

Amendment 2—Rebecca Evans

Delete point 1 and replace with:

Notes that Welsh Government continues to actively review the prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates across Wales, given the high prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates in some areas.

(Translated)

Amendment 4—Rebecca Evans

Delete point 3 and replace with:

Notes that the Welsh Government has put a broad range of national support measures in place to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic, which aim to assist those areas with high prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates as well as other areas across Wales, including:

a) building the testing and contact tracing capacity and introducing new testing options;

b) additional funding and support to local authorities;

c) significant public information campaigns across media and social media channels;

d) support for the safe reopening of schools and other education institutes;

e) funding for economic recovery and business in Wales;

f) £500 self-isolation payment.

(Translated)

Amendments 2 and 4 moved.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you. I call on Andrew R.T. Davies now to move amendment 3, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Andrew R.T. Davies.

(Translated)

Amendment 3—Darren Millar

Delete all after point 1 and replace with:

Welcomes the historic levels of funding by Her Majesty’s Government to all regions and nations of the UK, including those areas with high infection rates, to tackle the COVID-19 pandemic, especially the £5 billion of additional funding provided to the Welsh Government.

Believes that additional support measures should be put in place in the Cwm Taf Morgannwg University Health Board area in light of media reports that at least 9,000 patients have been waiting for more than a year for NHS treatment in September in that area, with waiting times due to increase further following the impact of COVID-19.

Calls upon the Welsh Government to provide the following in relation to areas with high prevalence of COVID-19, as well as other areas throughout Wales:

a) directly target areas experiencing higher prevalence of COVID-19 infection rates in Wales, including smart, targeted restrictions where appropriate;

b) increase the activation of COVID-free hospitals and temporary hospital facilities to ease pressures on the healthcare system and tackle waiting lists;

c) target testing at hot-spot areas and roll-out twice-weekly asymptomatic screening for all patient-facing staff in the Welsh NHS and social care sector;

d) commission an urgent inquiry into deaths and infections linked to hospital outbreaks;

e) introduce a compassionate support package for those most vulnerable to harm from coronavirus in Wales;

f) backdate self-isolation payments in Wales to 28 September to ensure a level playing field with other parts of the UK;

g) allocate the remaining unspent funds made available from Her Majesty’s Government to tackle the coronavirus.

(Translated)

Amendment 3 moved.

Photo of Andrew RT Davies Andrew RT Davies Conservative 5:13, 18 November 2020

Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'd like to thank Plaid Cymru for putting the motion before us this afternoon to debate. I speak to the amendment in Darren Millar's name, amendment 3, which highlights the additional resources that are being made available to the Welsh Government via its part in the union. Five billion pounds of resource so far, I might add, is a significant financial contribution to the effort to get on top of COVID and support the economy across the length and breadth of Wales, and I would suggest that being part of that union has enabled us to build this balance sheet that has looked at the pandemic and made the Welsh public realise the strength of the union balance sheet when it's called on to support all parts of the union in the face of this pandemic that is still unfolding before us.

I'd also identify with the comments from the opening speaker that called for additional resources for the Cwm Taf health board area, which our amendment speaks to. As a regional Member for South Wales Central, every Thursday morning I attend a briefing, via the Zoom session, over what is unfolding in the Cwm Taf health board area, which, for those who are uninitiated, covers from Merthyr right the way through the RCT area and stretches down to Bridgend county borough now. I have to say, when you hear the grim statistics of, sadly, the hospital-acquired infections and the deaths within hospitals—and it is worth repeating them within this forum: the Princess of Wales Hospital in Bridgend sadly, tragically, has lost 57 individuals, the Royal Glamorgan has lost 61, and Prince Charles in Merthyr, 34. That, just on the health front, shows the impact that COVID has had within the hospital setting, leave alone what is going on in the community setting, where nearly 9,000 people have been infected with COVID in the Cwm Taf health board area.

It is right to say, irrespective of what people might think of the tiered system that was adopted in England, there were additional resources attached to that tiered system that focused on the specific restrictions that were placed in those areas, unlike here in Wales, where counties were put under restriction with no additional financial support to soften the blows, economically, that were being inflicted on them with those restrictions. And I do think that the Welsh Government, with £1.6 billion sitting in its budget unspent from the £5 billion consequential, does need to look at the higher incidence of infections in communities that already have high levels of poverty and real challenges within those communities, and seek to address that by using some of that £1.6 billion to help the economic revival and the post-COVID build back that our amendment speaks to. Because I do believe that the fire power is there, and the Welsh Government does need to respond, especially when you look at the numbers, as I've read out, with the tragic death count in hospitals in that particular area, but also the infection rate in the Cwm Taf health board area, which speaks for itself. It's going to be a long haul, but we can start to rebuild, and we can, without a shadow of a doubt—I'm not trying to grab a soundbite—rebuild far better than maybe when we went into this crisis, with the right imagination and the right political will here.

I also think it's really important that, with the self-isolation payments that have been talked of coming from the Welsh Government, they are concurrent with other areas of the United Kingdom and backdated to 28 September, rather than, as the Government have indicated here, they'll only be paid to 22 October. I heard what the First Minister said yesterday in First Minister's questions, when he talked about that it's important that the systems reflect measures put in place to protect against fraud, and we all subscribe to that; we want the best value for the public pound. But it is vital that, when these measures are in place, that £500 is available from when those measures were brought into place. And if other parts of the United Kingdom are able to develop the systems—confidently develop those systems—that can deliver that support back to the end of September, rather than the end of October, I think that we should be calling on the Welsh Government to do that, and that is what our motion identifies with—our amendment, sorry, to the motion identifies with—today.

It also, in the amendment, touches on the hospital waiting times. And the figures are out tomorrow, I believe, that will give us a real reflection of how those waiting times are looking in Wales. But we do know, from freedom of information requests from the BBC and studies done by Macmillan cancer charity, for example, that, when it comes to waiting times, general waiting times, there are approximately 49,000 people on a waiting list here in Wales, and, when it comes to cancer, Macmillan identified potentially up to 2,000 premature deaths because people haven't been able to get those cancer appointments and those cancer treatments that are so critical to either putting the cancer into remission, or making sure that valuable time is bought for that cancer patient. And this is a vital area that we need to be developing in conjunction with the royal colleges, and developing the COVID-free concept within our hospitals and hospital settings, so that we can strike the balance between the health service not just being a COVID health service, but a health service that does what it is designed to do, which is to meet the general health requirements of the population at large.

And so I do hope that the amendment will gain support here this evening in the Senedd, because I do think it adds to the motion that is before us for debate and I'd urge the Senedd to support the amendment when it's put to the vote.

Photo of Delyth Jewell Delyth Jewell Plaid Cymru 5:18, 18 November 2020

So much of the economic reality of the Valleys these past 40 years has been the result of the deliberate destruction of the coal and associated industries by Thatcher's Government. That betrayal was like an earthquake and it's given way to many aftershocks. Our community spirit has never dimmed, but our unemployment levels remain stubbornly high and our health outcomes carry the scars of decades of underinvestment. Generation after generation has paid the price of what Thatcher took away.

The latest blow has been the disproportionately harsh impact that COVID-19 is wreaking. The virus has been cruel and relentless in communities across Wales, but in post-industrial areas where housing is close together and employment is so precarious that some can't afford to self-isolate, the virus has been able to spread at a shocking pace. Merthyr has had the highest number of cases per head of population in Wales. I'm glad that, today, the Welsh Government has confirmed that mass testing will be made available for residents of the area, regardless of whether they have symptoms. It's about time. But we need to build on that and provide the extra support that our motion is calling for, so that people living in our communities receive care, not just a diagnosis.

When areas in Wales entered local lockdowns, Caerphilly was first, closely followed by the Rhondda, Merthyr, Blaenau Gwent and Newport, later Torfaen. What do these areas have in common? Well, Llywydd, they are areas with older populations, with more terraced streets, and where family ties are still strong. Our connectedness has had a cruel impact, and, again, we've suffered because of poor planning and decades of underinvestment. I know that communities across Wales have suffered, and, clearly, the additional support that's needed for high-prevalence areas should be available everywhere that is required. But they are underlying reasons why the areas I've referred to have been hit particularly harshly, and we have to put that right.

A report by the Welsh Government's own technical advice cell on health inequalities found the pandemic has compounded existing health inequalities, and that these underlying issues stem from low income, poor housing and insecure employment. How many times do we have to listen to the same findings from yet another report before someone listens and gives our communities what they need? That is why we are calling for this greater support. We want to see accommodation for people who can't self-isolate at home, help for safe and affordable childcare, and protections for schools, like the introduction of mask wearing in classrooms. We need investment to overcome the digital divide to make it easier for people to keep in touch when they can't see one another face to face. And I'd add to that the need for mental health support to help communities with the collective trauma that they're suffering. Many of our proposals could be implemented Wales wide, such as increasing the self-isolation grant for people on low incomes to £800, to provide more childcare and support for people who can't work from home. These steps would help individuals and families all over Wales, but they are especially needed where the virus has been so prevalent.

Getting the confidence of the public is paramount, which is why we want stronger communication campaigns. When Caerphilly entered a local lockdown, no official guidance was given to residents on what to expect for more than 24 hours, leaving people feeling insecure and anxious. We have to learn the lessons of that lockdown. But we also need to understand more about what behaviours facilitate the spread of the virus. It would surely be beneficial for the Government to commission research in this area, because, if some of these behaviours were highlighted, then communities would know what steps to take to protect themselves.

Llywydd, there is hope on the horizon, with promising initial results from two vaccines. But we face difficult dark months in the coming winter, and the Welsh Government needs to plan in a way that is strategic and targets support where it's most needed. These remarkable communities need support. They've been crying out for that support for decades. Maybe now this Government can finally redress the inequalities that have plagued our streets and address all those aftershocks that have echoed down the decades since the mines closed. If not now, then when?

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 5:23, 18 November 2020

Can I begin by thanking Plaid Cymru for calling this debate and for their motion as well? Right at the top of the motion, in the three points they have, the first one notes this high continued prevalence of COVID-19 across the south Wales Valleys. There are other parts in Wales as well—indeed, in north Wales as well—which have high rates, but it's particularly prevalent across the south Wales Valleys. And in welcoming some of the remarks in Leanne's introduction, it put a focus onto the south Wales Valleys. Just to point out as well that, in addition to the Rhondda valleys, the Neath valley, Merthyr and so on, Cwm Taf also includes Bridgend and Ogmore. And I know she didn't mean to omit that, but, in the top ends of the Ogmore valleys, we've also had some of that very high prevalence of COVID-19, and, of course, we're part of the Cwm Taf area.

And on that very first point, can I also welcome Andrew R.T. Davies's contribution, noting the evidence that is compiled and given to all Senedd Members in the Cwm Taf briefings? But I would simply say to him, very gently, it's that very evidence of the impact on the health service within Cwm Taf, as well as the community spread and the workplace spread, that is exactly why we did need that firebreak and everything that came with it in order to actually take the top, albeit temporarily, off that spread and that massive increase that we had within the area. We desperately needed that firebreak. We now have to put that responsibility onto all of us who live within the Cwm Taf area to make that work as we approach the winter months.

It also noted, in item No. 2, the research carried out in England, which I think has an absolute read-across in Wales in post-industrial communities, as Delyth has rightly said. What we have are structural inequalities within the south Wales Valleys, and other parts of Wales, I have to say, because there are other post-industrial areas, including in north Wales communities as well. They are long and they are deep, and it is undoubtedly the case, as the committee that Delyth and I sit on has shown, that the impacts of COVID have gone deeper into those areas where those structural inequalities already were. So, I entirely agree with that.

Can I say, in terms of point 3 in Plaid Cymru's motion, but also some of the parts of others, including the Conservative ones—there are points there of merit within them. My worry is, however, that it is a bag of things, some of which might well have some real merit and are worthy of consideration and are right to debate today, but some actually may not be the most effective or the efficient targeting of additional support. So, I am happy to support the first two and to support Welsh Government in replacing the third part of the motion with the one that does actually recognise the work that is going on there. But I would add to it, and, within the Welsh Government amendment 4 under the name of Rebecca Evans, it does talk about the broad range of national support measures in place, including those to assist areas with a high prevalence of COVID-19. It does talk about the testing and contact tracing, and we've heard today about Merthyr, with mass testing, with massive resource being put into it and potentially talked about as a prototype for other areas that have high infection. That's welcome. There is additional funding going into local authorities. We need to keep an eye on that and see what more is needed.

I am hopeful that the Minister can tell us that there would be more on the public information campaigns, because it's something that I and others have been calling for: something that really focuses on things that will work for the people of the Valleys that I live with, that really gets to heart of them and wins hearts and souls about how to actually modify your own behaviour and look after your friends and families safely during this difficult period, and so on—their economic recovery. I'm interested from the Minister whether that £500 self-isolation payment, which is very welcome—whether that, for example, would be kept under review.

But let me say, Llywydd, I would have added to that 'to call on the Welsh Government to keep under review any additional support needed for areas experiencing high COVID-19 infection rates to control the infection rates, and'—throughout Wales, by the way—'commit to examining the additional impact of COVID-19 on areas of Wales with those pre-existing structural economic and health inequalities that are also experiencing high COVID-19 infection rates, and also will subsequently identify any additional necessary measures'—and look at what's been suggested today, but look at other things to redress those inequalities, which we know are being exacerbated by COVID-19, including on jobs and the economy, but also the health impacts of long COVID. We're going to be living with that as well. So, I would have added those.

I think there are some good ideas being pitched forward today. Some, I worry, are not the most effective and most efficient, but I would simply urge the Welsh Government, in doing all that it's currently doing, to keep an open mind on what else may need to be done as well, and to keep engaged with all backbenchers as we bring these ideas forward. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 5:29, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

Just a short intervention from me, and thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate and to expand it a little. It's important to note from the evidence we received this morning in the health committee that it's vital to support those who need to self-isolate, to support them socially and financially. But I want to ask the Minister whether he supports the call from the Labour Party in England to introduce a law to make it illegal to expound fake information on social media and to scaremonger with regard to the new COVID vaccine. Is it something that the Welsh Government will be doing to safeguard the health of people in Wales? Thank you very much.

Photo of Caroline Jones Caroline Jones UKIP 5:30, 18 November 2020

When I first raised the issue of this new virus emerging in China, and its potential to threaten these shores, I didn't believe that nearly 10 months later we would still not have a grip on it. This is partly down to the rules, which can be very confusing. One constituent contacted me recently confused as to why she could no longer meet friends socially distanced in her garden, but it was okay to go to the pub with them. She doesn't want to go to a pub and place herself at greater risk of contracting the disease, so she loses one of the lifelines that is keeping her mental well-being healthy.

We don't need complicated rules, we just need to stick to keeping 2m apart from those not in our immediate family, wash our hands regularly and wear a mask in public places. If you contract the disease, or have been in close contact with anyone who has, then you isolate for two weeks. Nothing complicated. This disease is spread by people in close contact with each other, and if we all socially distanced then this disease wouldn't be spreading like it is. Keeping people 2m apart is what will break the chain of transmission, not complicated rules for different parts of the country or a string of endless lockdowns or firebreaks, or whatever you want to call them.

This week, we learned promising news about the second vaccine under development. However, even if that goes to plan, it could be at the very least another year before everyone in this country receives a vaccine, so we can't pin our hopes on vaccinations just yet. As I've said many times, we have to learn to live with this disease, and develop a new normal so that people can go on living their lives as best they can under the circumstances.

It is going to take us generations to recover from the economic damage that COVID-19 has brought with it. We can't keep shutting down our economy. We should at this stage be conducting wide-scale testing and tracing of those who have the virus, and ensuring that they can safely self-isolate. And we should be ensuring that there is strict adherence to social distancing rules. At the start of the pandemic, we saw strict limits to numbers of people allowed into our shops and supermarkets, but in recent weeks it appears to have become in some places a free for all, and shops and supermarkets need to limit the numbers of people allowed in the store at any one time.

Finally, throughout this pandemic, one group has been sorely neglected: those who have had COVID-19, and far too many people have been left with life-limiting conditions as a result of the infection. These people have had next to no support, and one of my constituents, a dentist, told me that he is unsure if he will be able to return to work because the virus has destroyed his lungs. He finds breathing difficult and suffers from terrible fatigue. He is incontinent and has lost in excess of 15kg in weight, even though he was at the ideal weight before this. He is only 28, yet his doctor, when he's gone to his doctor for advice, has practically told him this is just anxiety and that he has to come to terms with it. This case is far from unique, so we have to ensure that those suffering from long COVID are taken seriously, and get the support that they need to go forward and return to a sort of normal life as best they can.

So, COVID-19 is a tremendous challenge, but we can learn to live with it if we put the right support mechanisms in place. Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:34, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

The Minister to contribute to the debate, Vaughan Gething.

Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 5:35, 18 November 2020

Thank you, Llywydd, and I'd like to thank Members for their contributions to today's debate. It is just over a week since the end of the firebreak. The early signs are encouraging, with cases of coronavirus continuing to fall. For the week ending 1 November, there were 8,660 confirmed cases in Wales, and for the week ending 15 November, there were 4,212 confirmed cases. So, fewer than half the weekly case numbers seen during the first week of the firebreak. And I do want to thank again the people of Wales for their hard work and sacrifice over the firebreak, and I do recognise this has been hard for people, so I really am grateful for everyone's efforts to do the right thing. 

Our exit from the firebreak recognises the need to be careful and cautious so that we do not lose its impact. The national measures introduced last week will be regularly reviewed to ensure they remain the right measures based on the latest evidence. We, of course, continue to closely monitor prevalence and the spread of the virus. We know that national rules are simpler and easier to communicate and for people to follow. But we recognise that things can change and if there was a flare up in a village, town or local area, we have a range of actions that could be taken.

We're committed to ensuring that individuals and businesses across Wales can access the same level of support across the country so we don't disadvantage any particular region. We're proud that we took the difficult but necessary decision to act here earlier, based on the clear scientific and medical advice. We have been consistent in considering the science since the start of the pandemic. We remain keen to work with other Governments in the UK to consider and implement a UK-wide approach whenever possible, but our approach will, of course, prioritise doing the right thing to keep Wales safe. We will of course, though, continue to work with other Governments in the UK as we work out our plans for the festive period.

It's important to remember that, when the UK Government previously announced the previous £1.2 billion Barnett consequential for Wales, more than half that money, £675 million, went on our NHS. And all of this Barnett share and all of the £5 billion referred to by the Conservatives is the result of announced or planned spend in England. It is not a matter of generosity or benevolence; it is how the union of the UK works. It is, though, a long way from what Wales will need to reverse the long-term damage caused by the pandemic. We remain disappointed that the UK Government has not responded to our continued request to provide the flexibility that we need to respond and to invest in Wales's recovery, especially the switching of capital to revenue, increasing the Welsh reserve and our borrowing power.

We did, though, use the firebreak to strengthen our test, trace, protect service so that it's fit for the increased challenge we know it will face this winter. Last week, I announced an additional £15.7 million investment in test, trace, protect, taking the total investment in our contact-tracing workforce since June to over £60 million. The additional funding I've announced will allow local authorities to recruit an extra 1,300 contact tracers and advisers, taking the total workforce from 1,800 to 3,100. We've also set up a new all-Wales contact-tracing surge team to help on days when there are particularly high volumes of cases. Contact tracing is a key part of our response to the pandemic. Since the launch in June, our test, trace, protect service has successfully traced more than nine out of 10 contacts identified by new positive cases.

On our wider support, we've made over £0.5 billion available through the local government emergency hardship fund. The funding responds to the needs of local authorities. The greater the need, the higher the funding. It covers all the services provided by local authorities, with specific ring-fenced funding for some areas, such as free school meals and adult social care. And we've recognised there has been an impact on authorities' ability to raise income. That's why we've been working with local government to assess that impact as the year progresses. In addition to the hardship fund, we've provided £2.85 million to support people on the council tax reduction scheme.

Our communications campaign will remain focused on asking people to think carefully about their choices—not what we can do, but what we should do—because Government rules on their own won't keep people in Wales safe. We all need to think about what we can do to help prevent the spread of the virus and how we act to protect others. How we choose to act over the coming days and weeks will define the course of the virus. You can expect to see that message reinforced over the coming days and weeks on tv, radio and social media, and a range of diverse choices. I hope that will help people again to reconsider and to make choices in terms of what we all should do.

Keeping our schools and education establishments open has been a key priority. To support education catch up, we've invested almost £29 million. That's enough to grow capacity in the system by around 600 teachers and 300 teaching assistants. We've provided £25 million for additional school cleaning to help keep our schools as clean and safe as possible for young people and school staff. We've also provided £2.3 million to provide free face coverings for all learners in secondary school and further education.

This Welsh Government has acted swiftly and decisively to help protect Welsh businesses from the impact of coronavirus. Our £1.7 billion plus business support package complements other UK schemes, and it means that companies in Wales have access to the most generous offer of help anywhere in the UK. When we developed our own economic resilience fund, we did so to plug gaps left by the UK Government's package of support. So far, the economic resilience fund has helped more than 13,000 businesses with more than £300 million of support, protecting more than 100,000 jobs.

And the new self-isolation payments have started from Monday this week. People on low incomes will be able to apply for a £500 payment if they have to self isolate because they have COVID or they've been advised to isolate by TTP, and it will be backdated to 23 November.

As the pandemic continues, we will continue to review and refresh our approach, just as Huw Irranca-Davies called for. We'll continue to take account of the latest scientific and medical advice. That is the right way to respond to an unpredictable virus. That is how we have consistently acted to keep Wales safe. As I said, how we act and the choices we make over the coming days will influence what happens next. I ask everyone to reduce the number of people they're in contact with, to work from home if you can, to go out less and only travel if necessary, and please continue to keep your distance, wash your hands regularly, and wear a face covering where required. All of us need to play our part, to take care of ourselves and each other, and that is how, together, we will keep Wales safe. As I say, I ask Members to support amendments 2 and 4, and again thank Members for the debate today.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:42, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

I call on Rhun ap Iorwerth to reply to the debate.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Thank you to everyone who has participated today, and for the opportunity to conclude the debate. I would appeal to you today to support the Plaid Cymru motion, which, quite simply, deals with supporting areas where there is an especially high prevalence of COVID-19. There are many of those in Wales at the moment. This motion reflects the fact that the areas with the highest prevalence are in the south Wales Valleys and the south-east, and these are the areas that most need our help, that most need our support.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:43, 18 November 2020

A few words on the amendments. We reject the rather illiterate but predictable delete-all amendment of Gareth Bennett and Mark Reckless. If they can tell us how they, as taxpayers in Wales, haven't contributed towards the Treasury funding that's come to Wales during this crisis, maybe they can tell others who may wish to avoid paying taxes. Not so much pork-barrel politics as scraping-the-bottom-of-the-barrel politics on their British nationalist insistence that you should never do anything on a Wales only level. Surely, if the response to COVID has to be identical in all parts of Britain, surely you'd argue the case to have a uniform approach across Europe too. I seem to recall we had a union for that.

Darren Millar for the Conservatives isn't quite delete all, it kindly leaves the point about some areas having higher prevalence of COVID than others, but it's up to them to reason why wanted to erase some of our suggestions. But after that, they reject more financial support for those who need it to self-isolate, even a rejection of the mass testing that we ask for, and which Government today, I'm pleased, has agreed to.

If there's ever been a time for constructive engagement, perhaps we could really see all, across all parties, putting some ideas together to try to seek better outcomes for the people of Wales. Huw Irranca-Davies, just to respond to your comments, I'm interested in knowing which of the elements in our motion you believe are not worth while, because, to be honest, what I'm seeing is that you're rejecting our list of things that could be good ideas and voting instead for the Labour ideas. I understand why you're doing that, but it isn't really helpful.

Photo of Rhun ap Iorwerth Rhun ap Iorwerth Plaid Cymru 5:45, 18 November 2020

So, on to Welsh Government amendments. They, too, reject, among other things, a higher level of financial support for people who are asked to self-isolate. And, you know, I wouldn't only advise people who have the time, I'd advise people who don't have the time, even, to watch this morning's meeting of the Senedd Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. The witnesses we had before us today were world-renowned experts in behavioural science and psychology in relation to pandemics and the epidemiology and public health—Professors Robert West, Susan Michie, David Heymann and Devi Sridhar—and they gave us a fascinating insight into the COVID response worldwide, of what's been done well by whom, what's been done badly by whom, what we can learn from best practice elsewhere, and what we can learn from long-established principles too about how to respond to pandemics. The one thing they pushed hard was the importance of supporting people in order to give ourselves the best chance of finding a successful elimination strategy, and in particular supporting people to self-isolate, and perhaps the most important part of that support is getting the level of financial support right. Devi Sridhar put it like this, 'You can't punish people for an act of goodwill.' What she meant by that was for those who have the virus already, they're being asked to self-isolate in order to help others. It's too late for them; they've got the virus. They're being asked to try to make sure that other people are safe, that other people don't get it. You may be in a job where, like me, you can pretty easily work from home. You may be financially secure—you could even afford to take a couple of weeks off without any income at all, perhaps—but many, many of us have understandably concluded that to self-isolate will mean hardship for them or, even more importantly, for their families. There is a disincentive for them to isolate and, as Leanne Wood said earlier, it's no coincidence that there areas of high incidence mirror to a large extent areas of higher deprivation, and the £800 figure that we include in this motion is not a figure we've plucked from the air, it's a figure that has been suggested by independent SAGE.

Now, if I told you that a UK Government paper on support for self-isolation published in September concluded that only around 20 per cent of people told to self-isolate were doing so effectively, I think you get the picture. What hope have we got? It's thought maybe that's closer to the 30 per cent mark now, but somehow we've got to change behaviour. We've got to financially compensate people properly, we've got to offer emotional and practical support to people. We've got to get the communication right about why people are being asked to take the steps that we are asking them to take. New York isolation rates are around 98 per cent. Why? According to Devi Sridhar, it's because they're getting that support right. We heard of places where people get a telephone call daily to ask, 'Are you still okay?', where people get emotional and practical support arranged as part of the package. That's the kind of thing we need. We also looked in committee this morning at the idea of setting up self-isolation hostels or hotels and so on—another element that's in our motion. There's so much more that can be done, all under the umbrella, again, of that support that we in Plaid Cymru are asking for more of in this debate.

Today, we looked at testing in committee and also how getting testing right has been at the heart of successful COVID response globally. We looked at Slovakia in particular and their Government's decision to test everyone in the country, not once, but they're planning to do it a second time too. Everyone is told, effectively, that they're in personal lockdown, then they take a test and, if they're negative, they can carry on working, and so on, and start mixing with others again. It's what they're doing on a smaller scale in Liverpool and what we in Plaid Cymru have called for to be implemented. We're calling for it in this motion today, prioritising areas of high prevalence.

Now, sometimes people question, don't they, the purpose of opposition debates like this, but, if they help influence Government policy, they're serving a very useful purpose. So, I was very pleased that, a few hours before this debate began, Welsh Government said they would be pressing ahead with the mass testing programme in Merthyr Tydfil—that's good, and let's just say we're pleased with that coincidence. But if we can do it in Merthyr Tydfil like this—and I note that Welsh Government said it'll be treated as a pilot, in effect—well, let's look with real urgency into turning that pilot into the standard response in areas of high COVID incidence.

So, to conclude, I ask you to support this motion today. We need to help individuals, families and communities to help themselves. So, let's get a solid plan in place to raise that level of support that we can offer, so we can give ourselves the best possible opportunity to get on top of this still highly dangerous virus. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:51, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendments. Does any Member object? [Objection.] We will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

(Translated)

Voting deferred until voting time.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:51, 18 November 2020

(Translated)

We have now reached voting time, but before we proceed, in accordance with Standing Order 12.18, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes in order to prepare for the electronic vote. Thank you.

(Translated)

Plenary was suspended at 17:51.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:58, with the Llywydd in the Chair.