Item 5 on the agenda is the statement by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales on taxi and private hire vehicle reform. I call on the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales—Ken Skates.

Dirprwy Llywydd, I would first of all like to recognise the vitally important role that the taxi and private hire vehicle industry is playing during the COVID pandemic. Many have continued to work throughout and have provided transportation for key workers, as well as obviously providing services that have enabled the delivery of vital goods, food and medical supplies. We acknowledge that this is a financially difficult time for the industry, with restrictions meaning usual customer demand is extraordinarily low.

Last week, I met with trade unions who updated me on the current challenges faced by the taxi and private hire vehicle industry due to the pandemic. We've endeavoured to provide assistance throughout this period where possible. In addition to the UK Government's financial support schemes, I've made available funding through phase 3 of our £200 million economic resilience fund, which includes a £25 million lockdown discretionary grant scheme administered by local authorities.

A number of the taxi and private higher vehicle industries have already benefited from the lockdown business fund and also the discretionary assistance fund. In addition, I can say that officials are urgently exploring options to provide high-quality PPE to assist the industry in protecting themselves and their passengers from COVID-19. We've also set up a dedicated page on our website to provide advice to the industry on ways to reduce the transmission of coronavirus and the available financial support.

Officials, Dirprwy Llywydd, are currently developing a number of pilot schemes with local authorities that will allow drivers to try zero-emission vehicles before they buy, so that they can better understand the potential financial and environmental benefits. And they're also exploring options for incentive schemes to assist those drivers interested in using these vehicles in the longer term.

Taxi and private hire vehicles are undoubtedly a vital form of public transport. They deliver a practical, direct transport solution and they provide an essential service to people living in rural communities where other forms of public transport may be insufficient or indeed absent; to the night-time economy, supporting many of our hospitality businesses; and, of course, to passengers with disabilities, as well as playing an important role in facilitating social inclusion. It is for these reasons that our Llwybr Newydd, the new Wales transport strategy, which was launched just last week, includes a supporting plan for taxis and private hire vehicles.

The current taxi and private hire vehicle legislation, though, is outdated, with the main framework dating back to 1847 and 1976. This framework has resulted in inconsistent policies, standards and licence conditions across local authorities in England and Wales. Taxi and private hire vehicle regulation, of course, is now a devolved matter under the Wales Act 2017. We currently have accountability, but until such time that we legislate, we are unable to mandate any change. Now, there are a number of problems associated with the current licensing legislation, which include safety concerns for both drivers and passengers, inconsistent licensing standards, which contribute to problems of cross-border hire, poor customer service and public confusion around vehicle types and fare structures. And the existing problems, I'm afraid, are going to continue to increase as the industry continues to evolve.

The UK Government first identified that reform was required back in 2011 when the Law Commission undertook a review of the current regime. And then, in addition, in 2018, a task and finish group reported recommendations for improving the taxi and private hire vehicle licensing regime. These reviews have created, I think it's fair to say, very high expectations with both regulators and the taxi and private hire vehicle industry that change will happen. However, apart from a few small amendments and the recent publication of the Department for Transport's statutory taxi and private hire vehicle standards, the UK Government has not actually reformed taxi legislation.

Since taxi and private hire vehicle regulation was devolved to Welsh Government, we have undertaken two major consultations. In response to the 'Improving public transport' White Paper, we recognised that there was general support for the proposals relating to national standards, to improved enforcement powers and information sharing. But, we also accepted, as a result of the consultation, that there was a strong feeling that the proposals did not go far enough to effectively address the current challenges faced by the industry and regulators.

So, in light of this, I made a commitment that the taxi and private hire vehicle proposals would be further developed and work has already begun on drafting policy proposals that build on the work undertaken in the White Paper. We focused these proposals around improving four areas: first of all, safety, secondly, equality, thirdly, environmental standards and then, fourthly, customer service. And we aim to introduce primary legislation that supports passengers as well as supporting the industry itself. New legislation is required to make taxis and private hire vehicles safe and part of an integrated transport system right across Wales and to professionalise the industry and ensure that drivers can make a decent, fair living. We seek to achieve this through developing and consulting upon new legislative proposals and will replace the confusing two-tier hackney carriage and private hire vehicle regimes with a single taxi regime.

We'll continue to work with local government to explore the merits of changes to licensing authorities where vehicles can operate nationally, except in restricted zones where there's evidence of oversupply, for example, here in Cardiff, and we'll create national licensing standards for drivers, vehicles and operators, with an emphasis on maximising public safety and professionalising the industry. In addition, enforcement powers will be increased and assisted by a national database and register.

As a starting point, ahead of legislative change, officials have undertaken work with the Welsh Local Government Association and representatives of local authorities right across Wales to identify areas of licensing policy that can be improved and made more consistent. This has resulted in agreement on a set of recommendations for taxi policy alignment. There are limitations to this work, as licensing policies vary greatly across Wales, and officials were mindful to ensure that adoption of the recommendations would not incur any significant cost to local authorities or, indeed, the industry ahead of broader legislative change. Nonetheless, these recommendations will be a stepping stone towards national licensing standards and the professionalisation of the industry, and I will keep Members updated on progress.

Minister, can I thank you for your statement today? I'm broadly in favour of the reforms and your approach, if they prove to be, of course, successful in terms of simplifying and modifying the taxi and private hire regulation systems. Generally, I'm not supportive of Welsh Government centralising powers away from local authorities, but in this regard, I think that there is a case for this, for a number of reasons, but many of which you pointed out in your statement yourself.

I wonder what feedback, both positive and negative, you did receive from local authorities, drivers, operators and passengers in terms of your proposals to centralise licensing in Wales. It would be useful to hear those views that you received. While the creation of the joint transport authority is preferred, you've gone further than the recommendation of the Law Commission and the task and finish group in consulting on introducing national standards. So, why have you chosen to go beyond the recommendations of the Law Commission and the task and finish group in this regard?

The Welsh Government's consultation paper proposed abolishing this distinction between hackney carriages and private hire vehicles, but this proposal appears to have been dropped. I'm given to understand that 45 per cent of respondents expressed a view that agreed with the Law Commission recommendations, saying that the distinction between hackney and private hire vehicles should be retained. The Law Commission also did not support the introduction of record-keeping requirements for taxi drivers, except in respect of taxis picking up passengers outside their licensing area. However, in principle, the Welsh Government supports the maintenance of accurate record keeping for taxi drivers, and I wonder why you have diverged from the Law Commission's view, and what practical difficulties you envisage in recording this data.

There's also the issue of taxi and private hire vehicles working along the border with England; you and I will be familiar with that, representing border constituencies. And the issues there are the same as why you want to take a centralised approach across Wales, which I also agree with, but then there is that border issue. So, I wonder if you could expand, in that regard, in terms of what discussions you've had with the UK Government and the Department for Transport.

And finally, I understand that you have proposed the setting of private hire licensing fees nationally but that taxi licensing fees will continue to be set locally. This was an unpopular proposal during the consultation process and there was a preference for local licensing authorities to be able to set fees for licensing taxis and private hire vehicles locally, but, in exercising the function, having due regard to guidance issued by the Welsh Government. I wonder what your response is in regards to this particular feedback.

Can I thank Russell George for his comments, his questions and say that I think his contribution points to the fact that there is general agreement across the Chamber that reform is required, that modernisation is required and that legislation is required? The framework currently is more than 150 years old; it was updated 44 years ago. It's high time that new legislation was introduced that recognises the age that we now live in, the new technologies that are being embraced and the different ways that people operate.

With regard to the proposals, they have generally been welcomed, and specifically with regard to national standards. I think they make sense and they address concerns that have been raised through the consultation process on the White Paper. Eliminating the two-tier system I think is necessary for Wales. Obviously, the situation might be different elsewhere. In London, there is a very different environment for hackney cabs to operate in, but, here in Wales, I think most people that we serve would struggle to identify the differences between hackney carriages and private hire vehicles, and having a one-tier system makes perfect sense for the passenger. It also makes perfect sense for the industry itself. We'd be able to then apply consistent sets of regimes across all forms of vehicles and services.

Of course, we'll need to address border issues between England and Wales. We're working very closely with the Department for Transport regarding this matter, and I'd agree with Russell George that there are many people who work on the English side of the border that bring people into Wales and vice versa. There are people who live in Wales who are registered as taxi drivers, private hire vehicle drivers, across the border in England, and, therefore, as part of the work on the legislation, we'll be liaising with the Department for Transport, and, indeed, local stakeholders across the border in England, to ensure that the introduction of legislation here in Wales is compatible with the operation of taxi and private hire vehicle services across the border.

And then in terms of the question of fees, I think it's essential that the fees regime is transparent, it's as consistent as possible, and that it is fair—that it doesn't lead to skewing of applications away from one particular area in favour of another area because the fees are lower, or, indeed, because the standards are lower. Many of the current problems that we see with the system as it operates right now concern those local authority discrepancies, those differences. The licensing requirements across Wales differ for various reasons, including the maximum age that a licensed vehicle can be, the frequency of vehicle testing, the vehicle testing standards, the driver knowledge tests and the driver medical standards, to name but a few different inconsistent approaches across Wales. Therefore, having consistency as much as possible across Wales makes perfect sense, especially for those areas where there is a significant amount of market activity, such as in Cardiff and Newport, also Swansea and in and around Wrexham as well.

I'd like to thank the Minister for his statement, and, as always, for the advanced copy, and to give him Plaid Cymru's overall support for the direction of travel of the statement. To make my opening remarks, I just would like to associate myself with what the Minister has said about the importance of taxis and private vehicles. There are some communities where they're the only form of public transport, actually, and people couldn't manage without them, and I know that many taxi and private hire vehicle providers have done extra work during the lockdown. I know the Drive taxi co-operative in Cardiff was picking up prescriptions and delivering food for people, and I know that was reflected across Wales.

I hope the Minister would agree with me that it's very important that he has the co-operation and support of the sector in order to be able to deliver the ambitions set out in his statement. He will, of course, be aware of the demonstation today, the trade union demonstration today—one of the signs referring to themselves, the taxi industry, as sometimes a forgotten trade, particularly through the pandemic. Now, the Minister has mentioned that there was financial support available through the economic resilience fund, lockdown business discretionary assistance fund, but I wonder if he can say a bit more about his perception of how much of that has actually reached people working in the taxi and private hire industry. There may be issues, for example, in terms of access to information. A lot of the people who work in the industry, for example, in Cardiff and Newport, are people from other countries who may not have English or Welsh as their first language; they may not know where to go to look for this kind of support. I welcome what the Minister said today about PPE for taxi drivers, but of course we know, for a lot of people who work in that sector, it is literally too late. This has been a sector where very many people who work in the sector have become ill, so can he please give us a timescale on that work around protective equipment? Because I think that's absolutely crucial for, as he said himself, those people to be able to work safely and for the safety, of course, of their passengers.

I firmly agree that legislation is needed, and, as the Minister has said, the current framework is very outdated. In my discussions with representatives of the sector, I think they do, overall, appreciate the need for reform, but there are some concerns. I'm not quite sure if I'd agree with the Minister when he says that people don't know the distinction between taxis and private hire vehicles. I know, for example, many women who will always use a taxi rather than a private hire vehicle because the perception, whether it's true or not, is that the standards of vetting mean that a taxi is a safer place for a woman to be if she's travelling alone. I have to say that it's something that I always recommend that my daughter does. So, there is a concern that, by removing the distinction between taxis and private hire vehicles—. Can the Minister assure me today that that's not going to lead to a reduction in standards, and that we're actually going to see the private hire vehicles raised up to the same standards as are required now of what we think of as proper taxis—that's probably not the right way to describe it—because we would certainly not want to see standards going down? So, I hope the Minister can say a bit more today about the justification for the single-tier changes. I think simplicity is clearly one of them, but can he be sure that standards will not be reduced?

Now, the idea of a national database and register is something that we would welcome in Plaid Cymru, and the strengthening of enforcement powers in the interests of public safety and standards is important. There are a minority of people working in this field who don't keep their vehicles clean, who don't meet the standards that we would expect, and that of course is bad for everybody who works in the industry. But I have had concerns put to me about the removal altogether of any local element. Local authorities surely need to know how many vehicles are on the road in their area, and if taxis and private hire vehicles are to form part of our overall public transport planning, we need to know where they are at a local level as well. In his response to Russell George, I think the Minister mentioned the risk of oversupply in certain areas, but I would also suggest to the Minister that there's also a risk of undersupply—that, if taxis are registered nationally, they will go to work where the work is, and that may mean that there are some communities that are left without a service. So, I wonder if the Minister can say a little bit more about how he intends to ensure that a service continues to be available nationwide. One advantage of registering county by county is that that's the county in which you have to work.

So, finally, to come to the zero-carbon issues, in the transport strategy last week you mentioned the need for a transition to zero-emission taxis, and I welcomed what you had to say about enabling people to try that out, but can you tell us a little bit more, Minister? I'd be grateful if you can say a bit more about the incentives scheme that's under consideration. Would it, for example, potentially provide support to enable drivers to be able to purchase zero-emissions vehicles, which are of course more expensive at present? Thank you.

Can I thank Helen Mary Jones for her contribution, which, as always, was extremely constructive? I'm very pleased to answer the questions that she raised.

I'll begin with that final question about the support that may be available for green taxis in the future. Of course, this is a pilot, first and foremost, that will enable taxi drivers, operators, to test green vehicles before they buy them. Ultra-low emission vehicle funding is going to be provided for a number of green taxi pilot schemes in this financial year. We are proposing that the pilots will take place in the Cardiff capital region, in Denbighshire, in Pembrokeshire and in Ceredigion, and then incorporate many of the priority areas that are included in the transforming towns initiative as well. So, we're trying to align quite a few policy areas in this regard.

Longer term schemes for incentivising the uptake of zero-emission taxis and vehicles are going to be investigated, such as options for grants, options for improving the terms of leasing schemes, but it's going to depend very much on the evaluation of the pilots, and, of course, I have to say that the degree to which we're able to offer support will depend on the availability of financial resource. But I am excited by this particular area of work, and I think that those pilot schemes can offer some valuable information and intelligence that will then shape the scale of the intervention that's required.

I'd agree entirely with Helen Mary Jones that many people rely incredibly heavily on taxis and private hire vehicles, particularly people who either don't have access to other forms of public transport in, for example, rural areas, and also, crucially, people who face disabling barriers in society. And yet also, alongside this, we know that, in some local authority areas, there are as few as 5 per cent of taxis and private hire vehicles that can accommodate wheelchair users. And often, we know from the reports back that have been commissioned by Welsh Government, people who face disabling barriers in society often face additional challenges in terms of being overcharged, and the customer service experience can sometimes not be what we would certainly expect. And so there are many barriers that we have to either bring down or overcome in order to make sure that the taxi and private hire vehicle industry is meeting the needs of disabled people. 

In terms of the sector itself and our engagement, as I said a little earlier, I met with the Wales TUC, with Unite, with the GMB last week to discuss the challenges that taxi drivers are facing right now during the pandemic. And, as a result of that meeting, I asked for a number of pieces of urgent work to be undertaken—one to gather the data concerning the third phase of the economic resilience fund, because the third phase was developed very much with taxi drivers in mind. That's why we developed that £25 million discretionary grant element. And so I've asked for feedback from local authorities as to how many grants have been applied for by taxi drivers, and for the unions themselves to ensure that their members are getting information about the various support schemes that are on offer—those discretionary schemes, the discretionary assistance fund scheme, for example, the self-employment support scheme, which is still not being accessed by thousands and thousands of self-employed people in Wales. So that data is going to be gathered. I've also asked for various other pieces of work to be undertaken, including of course how we may be able to supply valuable PPE to taxi drivers. The big challenge in regard to PPE is not so much how we go about securing sufficient PPE for the industry and drivers, but actually how we make sure we get it to the drivers—how they're receiving that PPE, that it's being utilised by taxi operators.

And it's an interesting point that Helen Mary Jones makes about the difference and the distinction between private hire vehicles and taxis. I think Helen Mary Jones makes an important point—that some people will obviously know what the distinctions are and that standards for taxis are considered higher than for private hire vehicles, and in particular around public safety. There are serious concerns that flow from some of the reports that were commissioned regarding the way that certain people have been treated. For example, both the Jay and the Casey reports on child sex exploitation in Rotherham highlighted that there were examples of taxi drivers being directly linked with children that were being abused, including instances where children were picked up from schools, children's homes or from family homes and abused or sexually exploited in exchange for free taxi rides. And so I can assure Helen Mary Jones and every Member today that the standards are only going to go one way—they will be improved. And that is absolutely essential in the interests of public safety, especially for the most vulnerable people in our society. 

Helen Mary Jones also raised the question about the national database and national standards. I think it's absolutely vital that standards are maintained at the highest possible level on a national basis so that we don't get the sort of cross-border issues that we experience now. And I think there will be a very strong local element to the operation of the regime as we propose it, particularly at a local authority but also at a corporate joint committee level. And local authorities are fully engaged in our consultations and in shaping the legislation, and of course they've been fully involved. They've been co-writing the recommendations, those quick wins that I outlined. And I think that, in terms of maintaining taxi and private hire operations in rural areas, well there is of course already, right now, some market failure in many parts of rural Wales, and that's why community transport schemes have proven to be so important in those areas. And we will go on with our commitment to community transport in rural areas as a vital means of enabling people to access work and access vital services.

I very much welcome the statement from the Minister this afternoon and welcome very much the proposals that he's discussing for reform of the sector. I think many people are looking forward to this, and I know that many taxi drivers want to see that sort of certainty as well—they want the framework within which they can plan their businesses over the coming years.

This has been an enormously difficult year for taxi drivers. It's been an enormously difficult year for the whole industry, and we’ve seen many people walk away from it because they simply cannot afford to carry on through this pandemic. I very much welcome what you said, Minister, about the discretionary fund and the economic resilience fund, and I hope that as much of that funding as possible can reach taxi drivers who are having, probably, the worst year of their professional careers.

In terms of taking this forward, I think there are two things we need to do in order to ensure that taxis form a part of the transport picture in the future. First of all, I think Government needs to do more to recognise taxis as a part of the overall public transport networks around different communities. You've spoken about rural areas and rural communities in the previous answer, but this is also true in urban Wales as well. For example, we've had the opening of the Grange hospital in Cwmbran over the last week, and it would be useful if taxis, for example, were a part of the recognised public transport network connecting our communities and patients with that hospital, and I'd like to see some more about how the Government will make that happen. 

And secondly, and perhaps more importantly in terms of the long term, I would like to see a taxi development fund established by the Welsh Government to enable local taxi drivers to compete with the technologically driven giants that are becoming dominant in the industry. It's going to be impossible for local taxi drivers to compete with Uber in the future unless they have help and support, and that means a development fund that enables taxi drivers to invest in their vehicles, but also to invest in the sort of technology that will connect them to their customers of the future as well.

So, I hope that we can take both these things forward and ensure that we have the regulatory environment, the funding available to ensure that taxi drivers are able to survive the pandemic, and then also the development that will enable them to form a part of the public transport networks of the future. Thank you.

Can I thank Alun Davies for his contribution? Again, incredibly constructive—there is nothing I could disagree with with what Alun Davies has outlined. He made three really strong points. One, there is the need for short-term support to get the sector through the pandemic. Secondly, there's the need for transition support to make sure that we futureproof the industry, to make it competitive, to make sure that it can transition and compete with industry disrupters. And then, thirdly, Alun makes this powerful point that we have to recognise that taxis and private hire vehicle services are an integral part of the public transport network here in Wales, and I would agree entirely that that needs to be demonstrated, and it will be demonstrated through the legislation that we will bring forward in the second year of the next term of the Senedd.

And in terms of the immediate support to the industry, well, so far, we've secured more than 100,000 jobs through the economic resilience fund, and that's in addition to the support from the UK Government for the self-employment support scheme and the job retention scheme, which I know has been helping the sector, but which it appears, in many instances, particularly here in Wales, is actually not getting through to individual drivers for one reason or another. Based on the discussions that we've had with the TUC and with unions, we believe that a lack of access to information may be a critical factor in appropriate support not getting through to drivers. And so, as I said in response to Helen Mary Jones, we're working with the unions to ensure that appropriate information can be distributed and disseminated right across the industry, and that the unions are working with local authorities, and of course with Welsh Government, in sharing appropriate information. Because, as I said, we set up that third phase of the ERF, particularly the £25 million discretionary grant fund element, to support sole traders such as taxi drivers, in order to survive the recent firebreak. Taxi drivers have been able to access support from that discretionary grant scheme even if they've accessed the self-employment income support scheme. So, the money has been there, it just appears that it hasn't been accessed on a sufficient scale by individuals within the sector, and that's why I have asked for answers as to why that is the case.

And then, in the longer term, I think Alun Davies makes a hugely important point that we face multiple disrupting factors: the transition to electric vehicles; the transition towards potentially fully autonomous vehicles; different models of public transport—so, shared car use and the uberisation of public transport; the need to decarbonise; and different ways of working as well in a post-COVID environment, with remote working hubs. We established, through the economic action plan, the calls to action. So, businesses seeking funding from the economy futures fund must do so on the basis of one of the five points within the calls to action, and two of those concern decarbonisation and rising to the challenge of technological disruption. It is a perfect means by which the sector could access funding in order to overcome and to challenge those disruptive technologies and the transition to a net-zero economy. Again, I'd very much urge the sector to look at that particular fund as an appropriate vehicle for drawing down financial support in order to get the vehicles that they're going to need for the future.  

Can I thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon? And I'm absolutely certain that we are all in agreement that reform of taxi and private hire vehicles is long overdue.

The main point I wish to make is that there should be a uniform system across the 22 local authorities of Wales. This would ensure that passengers would have a better understanding of the charges and the rules governing taxis if they were uniform across Wales. Could the Minister confirm this is also uppermost in his thinking?

I'm convinced that moving to a single-tier system would be of benefit to both passengers and local authorities alike. Each vehicle should be fitted with a meter with correct and uniform tariffs, and it needs to be clear that the meter can only operate from pick-up to drop-off. This should prevent over-charging. At present, companies and individuals running private hire charge what they see fit, as long as the customer accepts, but I'm sure the Minister knows that, in reality, it's a fait accompli as far as the passenger is concerned, in that he or she is committed as soon as they enter the taxi.

The new rules should include that all journeys should be recorded. Keeping a record of journeys has, in the past, been a benefit for bona fide drivers, local authorities and the police. It's also important, Minister, that companies who handle details of passengers should be subject to some form of scrutiny on how they take, give and store information. This would mean that there would be a much reduced risk of such data being misused. Will you make this part of your legislation? 

The fit-and-proper test should be more strictly adhered to and, possibly, all convictions should be disclosed, even moving outside the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. It is our duty to ensure that all passengers who get into a taxi can feel that they will arrive at their destination safely. Those who choose to travel by taxi must be able to travel without fear of being at risk from any individual who provides that service.

In addition to the nationwide tariff system, there should also be a nationwide vehicle quality test. You mentioned this earlier on, Minister. It is good to read in the statement that the Minister has all these aspects in mind, and I look forward to the time when the new regulations are implemented by legislation. So, can I thank the Minister for his work on this important transport matter? And I wish to add that much of the content of my comments come from within the industry itself.

Can I also thank David Rowlands for his observations and recommendations in his constructive contribution today?

Under the current legislation, as I've already outlined, we have 22 local authorities operating different licensing policies across Wales, and that includes, as I've outlined, in terms of the maximum age of the licensed vehicle, the licence duration, the licence insurance checks, and also the driving licence checks. Having a consistent national approach, I think, makes perfect sense both for the industry and for passengers, and many of the points that David Rowlands has raised today relate not just to the new legislation proposals, but also to the recommendations that came from our work with the Welsh Local Government Association, and the recommendations are aiming to improve standards and consistency of licensing policies without incurring unreasonable costs to the taxi industry or local authorities.

So, the recommendations include—and I think David Rowlands would welcome this—standard driver and operator conditions; enforcement protocols for cross-border authorisations; crucially, driver safeguarding training and a driver code of conduct; and also standardised driver application criteria. So, as adoption of the recommendations will achieve compliance with many of the Department for Transport standards, the Welsh Government is going to be monitoring local authority compliance to both documents, and this approach has been agreed, obviously, by the Secretary of State for Transport.

But then going on to the longer term, the taxi Bill is currently projected to be introduced in year 2 of the next Senedd and, as I've said, work has already begun on drafting policy proposals that build on the responses to the 'Improving public transport' White Paper. More detail is being developed around national standards, which David Rowlands pointed to as being absolutely vital, a national register and improved enforcement, which is proposed under the White Paper, and, in addition, new proposals include introducing a simplified one-tier licensing system to remove that distinction that I talked of earlier, and to create the single licensing authority and to allow taxis to operate across Wales.

I've just got to reinforce the point that I made earlier that new legislation is absolutely vital to effectively address the issues raised by the industry and regulators. Effective change, I'm afraid, cannot occur using the existing legislation or adopting voluntary measures.

First of all, I'd like to thank the Minister for reaching out to the unions to make sure that they were aware of the lockdown discretionary grant scheme, because this is something that I'd raised with the Deputy Minister with responsibility for ethnic minorities and equalities before the end of the lockdown, and, as mentioned by Helen Mary, many of these taxi drivers don't have Welsh or English as their first language. And so, at the very end of last week, I know that Unite submitted 1,000 applications that they'd helped taxi drivers complete because they were struggling to do it on their own; they really were. And unfortunately, there is a huge amount of need. It's been drastically oversubscribed in Cardiff, so I hope there's something we can do about ensuring that the inverse care law doesn't apply to taxi drivers, and that those most in need, who need most help getting the documentation together, are not going to be locked out, having no assistance whatsoever.

I enthusiastically support your efforts to encourage taxi drivers to embrace zero-carbon vehicles, so that they can understand that this is actually a much cleaner and, at the end of it, a more cost-effective way of running their business. But, clearly, there's going to be a need for some very carefully constructed loan schemes that are affordable, given that most taxi drivers have seen their income this year fall off a cliff. But, clearly, we need to move towards that, given that petrol vehicles and diesel vehicles are going to be phased out anyway.

Can you—? Can you close, please?

Yes. The uniformity of standards can't mean a free-for-all for every taxi driver in some areas and a dearth of taxi drivers in others, and there's already an over-supply in Cardiff. So, how does the Government propose to regulate the numbers of taxis operating in any given area, possibly using mobile phones—

Can you wind up, please?

—to ensure that we're just not getting this free-for-all, which is causing this massive oversupply?

Can I thank Jenny Rathbone for the questions she's raised, and also for her wider contribution in terms of flagging up the disproportionate impact that coronavirus has had on some of the most vulnerable people in society, including, in terms of the taxi and private hire vehicle industry, members of the BAME community? We recognise that the industry has been severely impacted by the pandemic, in particular the BAME community in Cardiff, Newport and Swansea primarily, which represents a high proportion of the industry.

As I've said to other contributors this afternoon, the information that's available, in terms of support, is there online. We've asked the WLGA to share that information with taxi drivers; we've also asked trade unions to do so likewise. Officials have worked very closely, I think, with the WLGA and local authorities in providing solutions to issues such as the suitability of temporary vehicle safety screens. And, as I've already said, we're investigating the possibility of providing high-quality PPE to taxi and private hire vehicle drivers.

And, of course, we've got the advisory group, which was established and has been meeting since April of this year, to consider the disproportionate number of COVID-19 related deaths within BAME communities. Work is going to continue on developing recommendations to ensure that the safety of workers is of paramount significance, and that we help reduce the number of deaths, particularly within key sectors where the BAME community is highly represented. So, obviously, the taxi and private hire vehicle industry is going to be a key concern of ours.

I'd say again to Jenny Rathbone that she is absolutely right that the issue of cross-bordering is perhaps the most pressing issue that we need to overcome, that we need to challenge. Because it's as a direct result of cross-bordering that many taxi drivers, particularly in Cardiff where there is oversupply, experienced poor levels of remuneration—low wages—before the pandemic, and as a consequence, even if they were able to secure funding through the self-employment support scheme, at only 80 per cent, it was barely enough to live on. That's why the discretionary assistance fund has been so important. That's why the discretionary grant scheme has been so important—the £25 million. But we want to go on looking at how we can help the sector in any way possible.

And finally, in terms of green taxis, I've already outlined the pilots that are taking place and how those pilots will then inform the scale of the support that's going to be required in order to transition the industry towards our net-zero ambitions. And, of course, there will a role, obviously, for the UK Government in this regard. They've announced that the date has been brought forward to 2030 for no new internal combustion engine vehicles to be produced, so we await as well—potentially tomorrow—any additional funding that may be announced from the UK Government to help ensure that that ambition, that target, can be met. 

Finally, Mick Antoniw.

Minister, I agree with many of the comments that have already been made, and I won't repeat those. Can I just put on record, firstly, that I recognise that the taxi service, particularly in the Valleys, has made such an important contribution to dealing with the COVID pandemic, in getting, for example, NHS staff to work in areas where bus services are poor in any event? I think it's important that that's recognised—and very much the comment that Alun Davies made about the taxi service being a really important part of an integrated transport service. The point he made about operational boundaries is important, particularly, for example, to Valleys communities, because to some extent the oversupply, as you mentioned, in places like Cardiff actually undermines the development of a taxi service in some of the Valleys communities, because taxi drivers are forced to go to one area and undermine the economic basis on which the taxi service can actually be supplied.

There are two aspects to standards and safety. One standard, obviously, involves training as well. Safety is for passengers, but it is also for taxi drivers, many of whom experience assaults during the course of their work. If there were other public sector workers who had that level of assault, we would be taking it as a very serious issue. So, I think that it's about recognising that situation and the role. One of the issues that the taxi companies have raised with me is the issue of the number of plates and the need for a cap on plates to ensure that there isn't an oversupply. That obviously overlaps with the boundaries issue as well. Can I then also raise the issue of—

No. Can you wind up, please?

I'll wind up—in respect of Uber, which basically has developed a race to the bottom in taxi services. It's important in any development that we don't allow the uberisation of the taxi service—that it has to have a firm commercial basis to survive and to be part of an integrated transport service.

Can I thank Mick Antoniw for the points that he has raised and the questions that he's asked? He's absolutely right that we need to avoid any race to the bottom. In so doing, we have to ensure that those standards that I talked of earlier are of the highest quality, and ensure that we can compete with those new disruptive entrants into the market on the basis of standards and safety. It has to be said that oversupply has been suppressing wages. So, in terms of cross-bordering, there is no doubt that the legislation that will be introduced in the next term is vitally important in raising wage levels for taxi and private hire vehicle drivers.

Of course, Mick Antoniw points to the essential role that taxis and private hire vehicle drivers have played during the whole of the pandemic, ensuring that key workers and NHS equipment have been able to be transported safely and reliably. I am incredibly grateful to the industry for playing its part in rising to the national effort. I know that the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport was due today to make a statement on activities within the Valleys taskforce. That will now take place on 8 December, and I'm sure that he will have something to say then about some of the pilots that have been taking place regarding public transport. Recognising the vital role that taxis and private hire vehicles play in the Valleys, I'm sure that he'll have something to say regarding the services that they operate in those communities that Mick Antoniw and other Members represent so well.

Thank you very much, Minister.