Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Diolch, Llywydd. Afternoon, Minister. We heard yesterday evening that Qualifications Wales have scrapped January's unit exams in ICT, English literature and Welsh literature, although other exams—not just resits—will still go ahead. I wonder if you can say why the learning of those students sitting level 2 and 3 units in health and social care is deemed less affected by school and college closures than those sitting literature and ICT.

Qualifications Wales has made a distinction between what are legacy qualifications—it's the last time that those papers were ever going to be sat; they will not be offered any longer—and those papers that will have a different opportunity to be assessed in a different way.

Thank you for that answer. My understanding is that some of the legacy GCSEs would be sat, but never mind.

I want to move on now to school closures, and I can see that all but one year group in my old alma mater in Aberdare were sent home to self-isolate the other day. Schools in Ceredigion, of course, are closing for two weeks, including primary schools, which surprised me, I have to say, when we are told repeatedly that in these settings the risks of transmission are low. You've told me that you don't collect data on whether positive cases in schools are there as a result of coming in from the community, or whether they're the result of in-school transmission, which doesn't help school heads assess the risk of the latter. The updated guidance that you issued—it must have been about three weeks ago now—to help schools has clearly had no affect in reducing the numbers sent home either way, and neither has the test and trace programme. So, I understand, then, why you have gone for the new guidance on face coverings in communal areas in schools, but why have you taken the advice from the technical advisory group document that you received to mean that pupils should wear them in the outdoor areas of school premises?

Thank you for that, Suzy. As you have quite rightly identified, we are continuing to see a considerable period of disruption, because of the pandemic, on our education. We are working with schools to minimise that disruption as much as we can. I'm delighted that Pembrokeshire schools that were closed at the beginning of this week are now in a position to reopen. I met yesterday with the chief education officer and the chief executive of Ceredigion to understand the decision-making process that has led to the closure of schools in that particular area.

It's incredibly disappointing, isn't it, and it demonstrates very, very visibly that the choices and the actions of individuals in the community, and making poor choices, can have a devastating effect, in this case, on the sustainability of education in that particular area, and, I understand, Presiding Officer, and you would know this very well, in terms of the fire and rescue service available in that area. We all have a responsibility—each and every one of us—if we want to see schools continuing and education continuing, to do the right thing.

Now, with regards to face masks for secondary school pupils outside of the classroom area, we know that a critical element of the successful implementation of any mitigating measure is clear communication and messaging. And with this in mind, we want to do more to support our headteachers, to ensure that the messages are clear, and to minimise the taking on and taking off of masks. Therefore, the message is very clear: when you're in a classroom, you are not required to wear a face mask; if you're out of the classroom, wear a face mask.

Well, thank you for the response, but it didn't really answer my questions about why, when you're out in the fresh air, you should wear a mask. If you'd turned around to me and said that there is a lot of evidence of pupils huddling up in the schoolyard and not behaving, then maybe I would have been prepared to hear your evidence for that. But yesterday, for example, I had communication from somebody—a parent—complaining that there were 30 children outside in, well, she called it a yard, the size of a hockey pitch, and they were all being told to wear face coverings. Now that, clearly, is not a great idea. So, I was hoping to hear something about the difficulties, perhaps, that teachers were experiencing in enforcing distancing in the yard, and why they're having difficulty doing that, because I don't see why they should.

The suggestion now, of course, is that lateral flow testing is the way forward. I don't want to talk about testing in general, but one specific case has come to me. I've had sight of one school's parental consent form, asking for their child to be tested. It doesn't say whether that child would still be permitted to attend the school if consent were not to be given. So I don't want to talk about testing in general, but in terms of parental refusal to give consent, will you be leaving this decision to schools, or will you be showing the leadership on this, and making the position plain about what schools should do in those circumstances?

Certainly. And can I say to the Member, she talks about huddling—we've got a lot of huddling going on in schools. As you can imagine, we've received numerous reports from our local authorities about adults huddling together at school gates. And indeed, within the playground setting, the idea that all children are running around and keeping 2m apart, that's a lovely idea, it's a beautiful thought, but let's face it, that's not exactly what is happening. Pupils do indeed huddle together in playground or field situations. Each of our schools is different. Some are able to have enough outdoor space to keep their bubbles in unique parts of their outdoor part of their school; other schools are having to bring bubbles together in outdoor spaces. And this is another mitigating measure that we are introducing to try and minimise disruption and keep children in schools for as long as possible. All of us, even when we're outside, should look to socially distance, and if we can't socially distance, or choose not to—we all need to be wearing masks. And unfortunately, we're in a position now where we are seeing this disruption that we feel this is the appropriate test.

Lateral flow testing is an important development. We are looking to roll out lateral flow testing in our schools as a result of the Merthyr Tydfil pilot. And in that circumstance, we are not compelling anyone to take a test. They are purely voluntary, and we wouldn't force a child, or an adult, to take a lateral flow test if they did not wish to do so. But clearly, as we go through the pilot and learn the lessons for that, we will be in a better position to make policy statements when we see a greater roll-out, I hope, of that technology.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Thank you very much. I want to start where you finished there, namely with the tests on a wide scale. I'm aware that you are doing work and considering introducing a programme on a wider scale in schools and colleges, for pupils and teachers, and I agree entirely that we do need a planned programme of tests going forward. There are tests going on in schools in the Liverpool area, and you've just talked about the pilot programme in Merthyr. Teachers' unions are, generally, in favour, I believe, and other parts of the world are holding wide-ranging tests on pupils and staff—New York, Vienna, Berlin, Nashville, Montreal. Are there any specific barriers preventing asymptomatic testing in schools in Wales? Why is it taking a little bit too much time before this is being rolled out? Will you be targeting specific areas? What will your criteria be in rolling this programme out? And what exactly is the timetable? 

Well, we're rolling out lateral flow testing in the education community as quickly as they are being made available more widely to Wales. So, all of our universities are taking part in the pilot programme, ahead of the end of the academic year, and we have now the Merthyr Tydfil programme, where we are looking to deliver lateral flow testing at school, in our high schools and in the local college, and communicating to parents who live in the Merthyr Tydfil area, but whose children attend school outside of Merthyr Tydfil, encouraging them to come forward and take part in the lateral flow testing community programme. We are looking at extending that into areas of Rhondda Cynon Taf, given that, again, that is an area of high incidence, and we are learning the lessons and the potential barriers and the difficulties of delivering this programme within the school setting. 

Can I say, having met last week with the headteachers of the high schools in Merthyr, the principal of the college and the chief education officer in Merthyr, they are all very committed to making this technology available in their schools? It's not only potentially an important part of understanding what the disease is doing in the community, but it could also help us, with the situation that Suzy Davies just referred to, in allowing children to get back to school more quickly, rather than a 14-day period of isolation, if they were deemed a contact. A daily test may allow them to keep being in school or a teacher to keep being in school, as opposed to a 14-day isolation period. So, we're looking at it in terms of not just a wider community benefit, but actually as a way of limiting disruption going forward. 

Thank you very much, and I'm sure that you'll agree the sooner the better that this programme is rolled out, especially remembering that there is some slackening going to be over the Christmas period, and that this testing will be vital in January, as we move forward. 

As well as the large-scale tests, and the wearing of masks that we discussed earlier, what further measures are you considering to keep schools open, but in a safe way? For example, better ventilation of buildings. Is there detailed guidance for that? And, can you talk about other special measures to safeguard vulnerable school staff members—the clinically vulnerable employees? Those two areas—the unions are asking for clarity on. 

And, then, there have been demands for smaller classes and a rota system in place, if cases were to increase, of course. What is your opinion on that? And, if that is going to be introduced, then, clearly, there will be a need for additional support for remote learning with more pupils at home. 

Operational guidance is available to all schools and all local education authorities, that includes reference to ventilating buildings. Each member of staff should be subject to a risk assessment. So, any vulnerabilities pertaining to that individual should be taken account of by that individual risk assessment and by the employers.

With regards to the rota system that the Member has suggested, clearly, we have asked schools and local authorities to have a number of scenarios in place that potentially could include a rota system, if that was felt to be the necessary step that was needed to take to maintain the pandemic. So, that is kept under guidance and kept under review, should it become necessary. 

Thank you very much. And, finally, may I turn to the COVID catch-up scheme? There are doubts with regard to this particular scheme. It's not very clear how the assistance is targeted, how the needs are measured, what monitoring is taking place. Now, clearly, we need to ensure that the funding is used in a purposeful way to deal with the loss of education that is certain to be happening at the moment, and is going to continue for some months. So, I asked last time that this session was held about an update on that, and I haven't received that. I think it's important for us to know exactly how this scheme is operating, and if there are any barriers, that we should know that too. 

Well, I certainly agree with the Member that the resources are spent in a purposeful way, and I have every confidence that the headteachers who are making decisions on how to spend this money, because it is for them to decide how best to use the money that has been made available to them, will also have been making decisions to ensure that the resources are spent in a purposeful way. 

With regard to data collection, we are awaiting the final returns from some individual schools, and some individual local education authorities, but I'm delighted to say to the Member that I'm very satisfied indeed that our initial targets of approximately 900 full-time equivalents has been reached.