17. Debate: New Coronavirus Restrictions

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:20 pm on 15 December 2020.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 6:20, 15 December 2020

We will also work with the local authorities and want to recognise the way that they have managed to process payments for business support. We have the most generous package of business support in the UK, but that only gets to many businesses because of the work that our local government colleagues have done. And I know that both the local government Minister and the economy Minister are very grateful to local government colleagues for enabling us to do so. 

I recognise the comments Adam Price made about whether we can wait until 28 December. Ministers are considering each day the choices that we make and when we need to make them. Adam Price, and a number of others, made comments about the harm that has already been caused. It is an undeniable reality that, more recently, excess death rates in Wales have been higher than in England and that's in contrast to the course of the pandemic, because over the whole of the pandemic, from Office for National Statistics figures published to date, there were 13 per cent excess deaths in Wales—that's more than 3,000 extra deaths above the average in Wales—compared to 19 per cent of excess deaths in England. On either calculation, that is a significant amount of harm already caused, and it underpins why the Government continues to have to consider future extraordinary action to keep the people of Wales safe. I haven't seen the letter that Adam Price says that he sent to the First Minister, but any constructive approaches about how we might reach a future settlement will be welcome and will be discussed.

Now, on test, trace and protect, I should point out that the test, trace and protect staff in the course of the firebreak did increase staff numbers by a third. We've managed to maintain an effective performance thus far and what is actually compromising our performance now and in the future is the continued wave of demand that continues to rise with each week. In the last week, we still got to 81 per cent of contacts, but our concern is how quickly we can get to those contacts, how long we can continue to perform at that high level, and the demand reflects the reality of transmission across our community. We can't simply demand that test, trace, protect continues to insulate people from the consequences of the rapid spread of the virus through our communities.

I want to thank Dawn Bowden and others for their recognition of the difficult choices that Ministers face. In terms of the point about mass testing, I think it is important the analysis that Dawn Bowden has already asked for about the impact of mass testing in Merthyr Tydfil. I look forward to seeing that sooner rather than later to help determine other choices that we may take. I recognise her point, and the point made by Joyce Watson too, on the collective action we need to take to improve our health and economic future, and that goes alongside personal responsibility.

I was grateful to David Melding for his measured and supportive response in terms of recognising the need to act with the regulations that we have introduced, and equally signalling that he and others indicate that they would contemplate supporting action before Christmas as well as afterwards. And also the prospect of future regional changes that, again, Jack Sargeant indicated he would wish to see, if and when it is safe to do so, and we do set that out as a real prospect and possibility in the updated COVID control plan that we've published.

Now, turning to Rhun ap Iorwerth, I think it's fair to say the firebreak did work: it significantly reduced infections. What didn't work was a new settlement on behaviour change after the firebreak had ended. We collectively returned to more normal patterns of behaviour before the firebreak and that is what leads us to the position that we face today.

I recognise the call for more support, including support for people isolating. And our constant challenge is what we do about messaging the support we've already provided, but also the reality that every extra piece of support we provide has to come from somewhere, and our budget challenge, the extra pressures that health faces, the extra pressures that businesses face, and our ability then to have more money to support individuals to do the right thing for them, their family, their community and, of course, the country. But I do recognise that the Government has a role in leading and shaping debate and in influencing behaviour, but we cannot determine the behavioural choices for every member of the public. That's why I welcome the points made by Members across the political divide within the Chamber about personal responsibility.

I respectfully didn't agree with much of what Caroline Jones had to say. I don't accept that the reason why we don't have a single, UK-wide approach is because the Welsh Government has refused to co-operate with other Governments—far from it. We have regularly called for more co-operation between the Governments of the UK to understand the context in which we all operate, to have as much commonality as possible, and that is still where we are as a Government. We want to see more common approaches to help the public to understand what we ask them to do and why, and it will continue to be the approach that we take in our engagement with every one of the Governments within the United Kingdom.

I thank Lynne Neagle for her vivid description of the health and social care pressures within Gwent. They're also being faced by Members within Swansea Bay, the Cwm Taf Morgannwg Members, and, indeed, Cardiff and Vale Members would also recognise those pressures. And I'm afraid that Hywel Dda Members, thinking again about Joyce Watson's comments, will see those as rising pressures within the west of Wales too. And we see coronavirus cases increasing in the north of our country. This is a genuine national fight that we face against the virus and not a local or regional one, and we all need to play our part.

I hope that Helen Mary Jones is content with the fact that we recognised that scientific advisers do need to have an engagement with different business sectors. In fact, that has happened already with the sector representatives we've discussed—they haven't just spoken to Ministers, they have had engagement with representatives from the chief medical officer's department or the chief scientific adviser on health's department to try to explain the evidence that underpins each of the choices we have made. But we're happy to confirm that is the approach we will continue to take as we have to make difficult choices.

I thank Carwyn Jones for his comments as well, and, as ever, there was a distinction between the comments Carwyn Jones made about Sweden as not a model to follow and Neil Hamilton, who continues to want us to do so. As ever, there was a failure to compare Sweden with the reality of what has happened in Finland, Norway and Denmark—countries that compare much more neatly with how those populations respond to their Government and the practical situation within them. I do not believe that Sweden is a model for Wales or any part of the UK to follow. I think, though, when we talk about herd immunity, it's important to recognise that herd immunity can come from protection from a vaccine, and when Carwyn Jones made his comments, I'm very clear he's saying that that should not come from a survival of the fittest, or an abandonment of our most vulnerable citizens to their fate. That has never been the approach of this Government, and it never will be. I want our people to be protected by the vaccine.

And that's where I think we need to finish, Llywydd. The action plan is a response to the crisis that we face, the reality that more action will need to be taken by the Government and by each of us, in our families and communities, in the weeks and months ahead. The vaccine does offer hope, but to get there, we all need to face the crisis together and to travel that road together, and all of us need to act so that we do not lose people on the way. We may have other life events to celebrate together, but we cannot replace those who are lost, those who are lost unnecessarily.

The pandemic will end. We will get to a position where we will protect our people through effective coverage with a vaccine, but the actions that we take, in every home, in every family, will determine how many of us finish this journey together to help rebuild our country. All of us have a part to play to keep Wales safe, and I hope that Members will feel able to support the Government with amendments to the motion today, but more than that, to support every part of our country in the difficult months that lie ahead. Thank you, Llywydd.