Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:32 pm on 15 December 2020.
We'll just clarify a couple of things for the record, shall we? The oven-ready deal is absolutely not as the Member describes it, and I'm sure that the Prime Minister will be extremely grateful to him for reading out so faithfully the salvaged lines, which, clearly, have been circulated in Westminster to try and change the perceptions around that. And on the list of powers that he's brandishing in his hand, there's never been any dispute that powers returned to this place is a consequence of leaving the European Union. He knows full well that the point he was making in the debate when we last faced each other across the Chamber was around the internal market Bill, and I asked him to point me to the section in that Bill that provided any new powers to Wales, and I note from his last contribution that he didn't take the opportunity to do that.
He asked me whether I preferred the deal, which is apparently being negotiated, or no-deal; I think the entirety of my statement gives him the answer to that question. He is right to say that we don't have visibility of the deal on the table; I'm sure he would agree with me that we should, as a Government that will be significantly impacted, on behalf of the people of Wales. But he's right to say that we don't have the detail. We've been very clear: these have been the UK Government's negotiations, and the devolved Governments have not had the role in those that I'm sure Members of this Senedd, generally, would feel was appropriate. My description of it as a thin deal is based on the maximum ambition that the UK Government has for the relationship. Even if that was delivered in its entirety at this stage, it would be a thin deal. So, we can take that, I think, for read.
He explores, in his question, the question of sovereignty. It's an important question, but it's essentially illusory in the context of international trade negotiations, because in order to gain advantage, you have to concede in order to secure any sort of agreement—it's in the nature of a negotiation. So, describing this as a battle between sovereignty is entirely missing the point. He speaks about Canada, he speaks about a range of other countries; if he would like us to have the level of trade with the EU that those countries have, that would be a significant diminution in our trading capability with the European Union—a significant diminution.
He asked me for opportunities, and yet he asked me to follow the principles that Canada and other countries have followed. Those two points are fundamentally at odds with each other, and I think the Member must be aware of that. In terms of opportunities from other deals, there are opportunities, we are pursuing them, but even at their most ambitious, they are a fraction of the impact on our GDP of a good trading relationship with the European Union, which is why we've put that at the top of our list of priorities.
Finally, he says, 'Will we prosper outside the European Union?' This Government will want Wales to prosper in whatever relationship we have with any part of the world, but we have to look at the evidence and not defy the reality of our current arrangements, and how we can build upon those, not undermine them. That is what we seek to do as a Government here, and that is what we want the UK Government to do on our behalf.