Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Llyr Gruffydd.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. We all know that the Government published its White Paper on agriculture this morning, and I look forward to reading that over the next few days. But, at first sight, I have to say that there isn't much difference or change from some of the consultation documents that we've previously seen. There are elements that we agree with—I think it is time for us to move towards models that pay for public goods—but you and everyone else will be aware that we disagree and continue to disagree on the need for some stability payment as part of the support available to the sector. But you pledged, of course, that you wouldn't bring proposals forward without having carried out a full impact assessment and thorough modelling of them, but I read in the White Paper, and I will quote:

'Further analytical work is being carried out to establish the economic impact of our proposals at the farm business, sector and regional levels. The results of this work will be important for assessing the potential impact of the scheme on rural communities.'

Well, that tells me that you don't know what the impact of the proposals will be on those very family farms that you will rely on to deliver those public goods and the outcomes that we all want to see. So, how can you publish such a significant White Paper, which is so far reaching, when you clearly haven't done your homework?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd will be very well aware that this White Paper is the end of many discussions, many debates and two significant consultations, and we've now brought forward the White Paper, which I said, in an earlier answer, will pave the way to a Wales agricultural Bill in the sixth Senedd.

There is a great deal of evidence and analysis that will need to be looked at ahead of bringing forward the Bill. You'll be aware that Welsh Government officials have let a contract to engage an independent consortium to examine the effects of the proposals on the agricultural economy of Wales. It is a very complex piece of work. I think it's really important we get it right, we don't rush it, and I don't expect a final report on this to be received before the autumn of next year. There is no rush to do this. We have the temporary powers from the UK Government Agricultural Bill. What is important is we get it right, and there's a great deal of work that's been done in preparing this White Paper. We've got the environmental and rural affairs monitoring and modelling programme, we've established a stakeholder evidence group, so officials can engage with stakeholders, and, as I have said, and you have just alluded to, we won't take any final decisions on the nature of any future scheme until that economic analysis is completed.

So, if there's no hurry, Minister, why are you bringing forward a White Paper before the group that you're establishing to look at making these assessments have actually concluded their work? You've contradicted yourself in that answer. And what work has already been done, which I know you reference in the report, of course, will be dated if not irrelevant come 1 January, because, at the end of the transition period, everything changes. We have no idea what access Welsh farmers will have to export markets, be it the EU or further afield. We have no idea what level of cheap imports may well be flooding into our domestic market, undermining and undercutting our producers here in Wales, and, of course, instigating that race to the bottom. And we still don't really know what level of EU replacement funding we'll receive in Wales; what we do know is that the UK Government has cut the funding that we'll receive next year. So, it really doesn't augur well in terms of you knowing what level of funding you will have to meet some of the ambitions that you have in your White Paper. So, surely, what we are proposing in any White Paper should be based on what we will come to know after the Brexit dust has settled, and not just publish a White Paper that is a bit of a hit-and-hope approach, in my book, when absolutely nothing is clear.

You are quite right that there's a huge amount of uncertainty at the current time, particularly in relation to funding. As you say, the UK Government have cut the agricultural funding by—we're £137 million short; we're still fighting to get that funding returned to us, but, clearly, funding is a significant issue. However, this is an opportunity. We know we need to bring forward an agricultural Bill very early in the sixth Senedd. This is a consultation, again. This consultation is open until 25 March. Nothing is set in stone and, as I say, no final decisions will be taken. We've engaged significantly over the past four years, since the European Union referendum. Officials have met with a wide range of stakeholders; I, myself, have met with a wide range of stakeholders. We've had many discussions in the development of the evidence base that this White Paper has been based on.

And still there's no clarity on how your proposals will actually be implemented. You mentioned it: four years since the referendum, three years, I suppose, since this dialogue with the sector started in earnest. This is the third consultation that you will be engaging with the sector and wider society around, but, again, it's a lot of high-level aspirations, which we've already seen in 'Sustainable farming and our Land', the previous consultation, and 'Brexit and our land', the one before that. There's next to no operational detail, no information on what the proposals will mean on a farm level, no clarity on timescales, no detail on the transitional arrangements, no budgetary information either. So, I'm just wondering: what are you hoping to learn from this particular consultation that hasn't already become evident to you in your two previous consultations that you've undertaken? And, again, I'll come back to the point that you made that there's no hurry. And I agree that it's more important to get it right than to do it quickly, but is the next 12 weeks really the best time to engage the sector in a meaningful consultation? They're already grappling with the consequences of a global pandemic, which is decimating the food supply system globally, and Brexit hasn't hit yet. Give it a fortnight and the whole sector's going to be in absolute chaos dealing with the fallout of the end of the transition period, and you're expecting a meaningful consultation when the sector is actually in the throes of ensuring that they just survive. Surely the timing of this is all wrong.

I absolutely recognise that we are in a very difficult period of time, but that, unfortunately, I think, is going to last for a little while later. You will be very well aware that I committed to bring forward this White Paper before the end of the year, and I'm sure you would have been the first to criticise me if I hadn't done that. So, I have to say, I haven't heard from any quarters, apart from what you've just raised with me, about it being the wrong time to consult. Everybody has known this White Paper is coming before the end of the year. I think it was back—if it wasn't the summer, it was certainly the autumn that I promised to do that before the end of the calendar year. So, nobody will be surprised that we have brought this forward. The consultation is open to 25 March; I hope to hear as many views as possible on the White Paper. And I think stakeholders recognise that we're in a middle of a climate emergency as well, whilst, of course, we're in the middle of a pandemic. That climate emergency is here as well, and I know that the agricultural sector, in particular, feels they are part of the solution to that climate emergency, and I would be very keen to hear their views on how they will continue to respond to that.

Conservatives spokesperson, Janet Finch-Saunders.

Diolch, Llywydd. I have to say, in looking forward to the publication of the White Paper today, I do have to echo and endorse some of the comments by my colleague Llyr Gruffydd. These White Paper proposals fall short of providing the framework required to meet the principles and ambitions that our Welsh farmers deserve. We've all known the result of the Brexit vote, and, on the quick reading that I've had a chance to do on this today, it's not too clear that some of the previous consultations have added any weight to that, in terms of you taking those forward.

Our farms are the cornerstone of our rural communities, and are essential job creators, who safeguard historic and sustainable land management practices for generations to come. Despite your White Paper running to 74 pages, I'm astounded that you've only referenced the term 'employment' three times, and have only given a single cursory nod to jobs in the farming sector. This undermines the immense value that our farms bring to rural communities and regional economies. So, Minister, will you review your proposals to fully recognise the importance of the farming sector as an integral employer in rural areas, and will you look to further emphasise the very real value of the food production by our farmers in Wales?

I'm astounded at Janet Finch-Saunders's analysis of the White Paper. Obviously, it's the Bill and then the Act that will provide that framework, but the whole purpose of having our own Wales agricultural bill—the first time we've had the opportunity; let's look at the opportunities from leaving the European Union. And this is a massive opportunity to have our own Welsh agricultural policy, absolutely tailored for Wales—a bespoke agricultural policy. We absolutely need to keep farmers on the land—absolutely. Without them, we wouldn't be able to deliver any of the outcomes that we seek to do. Sustainable food production is absolutely at the heart of this White Paper—not like England's. So, we are absolutely adamant that food production has to be a part. And if you look at 'Brexit and our land', that was one of the concerns of the agricultural sector, that food wasn't given enough prominence. That changed with the second consultation, in relation to 'Sustainable Farming and our Land', and it's absolutely at the heart of the White Paper, along with the environmental outcomes that our farmers are producing but not being rewarded for at the current time.

Thank you, Minister, but considering the time that has elapsed since your very first consultation, I am dismayed by the lack of substantive detail in this document, and such little acknowledgement of the time and energy that our farmers have put in to responding to you previously on many other consultations. And reading the document—albeit very quickly—today, it does not reflect the input that they've had. This proposal should stand as a once-in-a-generation opportunity. We're looking at a 15 to 20-year plan, to develop and introduce a comprehensive food and farming policy, ensuring food security, and promoting the sale and procurement of Welsh food for the domestic market. Instead, however, your White Paper is heavy on enforcement, mentioning regulations 79 times. I consider that a class insult to our farmers—a move that will only work to impact the competitiveness of our farms.

COVID-19 has highlighted the fragility of our supply chains, and just how important our farmers are to food production in Wales. Just remember how they came forward during the pandemic, and continue to do so. When people became very frightened and bothered about going into supermarkets, our farmers were there, with our butchers, delivering food where it was needed, and that cannot be overlooked. It is simply not a globally responsible position for this Government to pursue a policy that leads to the contraction of Welsh farming and food production, and that is the feeling so far. So, Minister, in this context, why does the White Paper mention food security only twice, with no apparent consideration of the need to maintain and enhance levels of food production in Wales?

So, we had the first consultation back in 2018 and the second one last year, in 2019. Again, I'm surprised that you don't feel that there has been a change in the tone of language or the proposals that have come forward, because there clearly has. So, I would ask you to go back and look at the two previous consultations, just to see that.

Our proposal to introduce a sustainable farming scheme is to place a proper value on the environmental outcomes that our farmers produce. They don't get rewarded for that at the current time. Sustainable food production is absolutely at the heart of it also, and that was at the specific request of, certainly the first consultation we had, where we had over 12,000 responses. So, to say we haven't listened to people who took the time to respond, I think, is completely incorrect.

There are those who have called for a status quo, but I think, as the—. Certainly the first consultation, people were saying they wanted a status quo. But if you talk to the majority of farmers, they will say that the common agricultural policy has not equipped the sector to be resilient or to deal with the environmental challenges that, as I say, the climate emergency is really in the middle of. I absolutely agree with you that our agricultural sector, and our farmers, were at the fore, to ensure that we were all fed. Nobody went without food in Wales, and of course they were part of that.

So, this is a consultation again, so if anybody has any further ideas, obviously we hope to hear very much from them. We're going to work very closely with the industry and with our farmers to develop the detail of the scheme. And I've made it very clear that we won't make any changes until we can demonstrate that new scheme is adequately designed.

You mentioned procurement, and I absolutely agree with you that that is a further opportunity. And that food security that we're all concerned about, I'm certainly having discussions with my counterparts at the current time, because a 'no deal' exit from the European Union would not do anything to help our food security.

Thank you again. Minister, in dealing with the national minimum standards for agriculture, your White Paper states:

'Further, more detailed, consultation on the scope of the National Minimum Standards will accompany this secondary legislation.'

So, there's a feeling that you are once again leaving the details until further down the road. Now, considering that you are intending to make these as broad as possible, consolidating regulations on nitrate vulnerable zones and animal health and welfare legislation into it, stakeholders have said that they believe the timing of the publication will make it harder for farmers to actively participate, and that they feel that this paper simply does not reflect their consistent level of engagement with you on previous consultations.

Just let me remind you that when our hardworking farmers do respond to consultations, a lot of their time and energy goes into that, so this document, and any Bill going forward, must reflect their views. So, having raised concerns with you about engagement before, can you give this Chamber some reassurances that adequate time will be given for farmers to scrutinise these proposals with a target date when this further clarity will be provided? Because, quite simply, as you've rightly pointed out, we're in the middle of COVID still, we're in the middle of a climate emergency, and with all the Brexit negotiations and preparations at the beginning part of the year, it's going to be very difficult—[Interruption.] I don't think the Minister needs any help, Joyce. [Interruption.]

Hold on, this isn't a conversation between the two of you. You carry on, Janet Finch-Saunders. 

There's going to be very little time for farmers, once again, to engage if they feel they're not being listened to. So, all I do is make a plea, again, after what's been a horrendous year for all of us, make a plea that you listen to the farmers and you make our food producers and our farmers the most integral part of any agricultural Bill going forward. Thank you. 

Janet Finch-Saunders reminds us that we're in the middle of a perfect storm; I couldn't agree more with you on that. But I have always made the farmers and our food producers absolutely integral in all this. I've always listened to them. I've always engaged them. I think you'd be very hard-pressed to find a farmer that would say any different.

You referred to the national minimum standards in relation to regulations, and one of the first complaints I received when I came into this portfolio four years ago was that the regulations were too complex, there was not one place where those regulations were, they were in different parts of legislation. This is a proposal to bring everything together in one piece of legislation. Also, you've got the enforcement of agricultural regulation, which, really, is currently heavily focused on the CAP payment schemes. And outside of those schemes, it then really goes to criminal prosecution. It's a very big leap from that to criminal prosecution. I don't want to criminalise our farmers, and I think we need proportionate options for enforcing less serious offences. So, that is the plan with the national minimum standards. But, again, it's a 12-week consultation.

And one of the reasons—. Believe me, the team of officials that have worked on this, they were very, very involved at the beginning of the COVID-19 response for Welsh Government. They knew that I wanted to bring this White Paper forward by the end of the year: (1) I promised it, and (2) in order to have the full 12 weeks of consultation, and that's one of the reasons for bringing it forward now, and I pay tribute to the hard work they've done to enable that to happen.