Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

1. Questions to the First Minister – in the Senedd at 2:00 pm on 19 January 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:00, 19 January 2021

I can't see Neil Hamilton on the screen in front of me, so I'll move on to questions by party leaders, and the first leader this afternoon is the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Paul Davies.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 2:01, 19 January 2021

Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, in November, the Welsh Government held six Cabinet meetings, and yet in the published minutes a range of issues were discussed, such as the Welsh Government's transport strategy, the building safety White Paper and even broadening the role of firefighters. However, there's not one single item on vaccines or vaccinations tabled or raised for discussion. Given the importance of developing a vaccine strategy in readiness for the deployment of vaccines, why did the Welsh Government not even discuss the matter during the entire month of November? And can you tell us when, as a Cabinet, you did discuss the deployment of vaccines?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour

Llywydd, I'm grateful for the opportunity to put on record, in front of the Senedd, what my colleague the health Minister has already said. The very top priority for this Government and the very top priority for the NHS in Wales is to vaccinate as many people in Wales as quickly and as safely as possible, and the plan that we set out for doing so is being fulfilled, and we are on track to do what we have promised the people of Wales to do. Because the Member doesn't read in the minutes every detail of what is discussed at the Cabinet does not, of course, mean that matters are not discussed. Vaccination, and all other aspects of the coronavirus crisis, were discussed inside the Welsh Government with senior officials and between Ministers right through the month of November, as they have been ever since the first meeting of our group to plan for vaccination took place in June of this year.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 2:02, 19 January 2021

Well, I put it to you, First Minister, something as important as the roll-out of the vaccinations should have been discussed at Cabinet level and should have been minuted, I would have thought. The Welsh Government has had months to develop a strategy that ensures people in priority groups all over Wales receive their vaccination. And instead, what we've seen is patchy and inconsistent provision with different levels of progress in different parts of the country. And it's deeply concerning to hear that you defend your go-slow policy to prevent vaccinators standing around with nothing to do when a Welsh Government should be significantly accelerating the administration of vaccines across Wales, and those concerns, of course, have been echoed by BMA Cymru, who, as we've already heard earlier this afternoon, have said to stop sitting on supplies and to get on with it. Now, whilst other parts of the UK have started vaccinating people in the over-70 category, here in Wales, people in their 80s and some even in their 90s in my constituency are still waiting for their vaccines. So, First Minister, can you tell us whether the Welsh Government intends to continue with its go-slow approach for the duration of the vaccine period? And if so, how confident are you that people in priority groups will actually receive their first vaccine by mid February?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:04, 19 January 2021

Llywydd, the policy of the Welsh Government is to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible here in Wales. There is no other policy. It is our top priority and it is the top priority of those very hard-working people in our health service who, on top of everything else that we ask of them, are putting in those long hours to make sure that 1,000 people in care homes are being vaccinated every day here in Wales, and that by the end of this week, as a minimum, 70 per cent of the over-80s and people living and working in care homes will have been vaccinated in Wales. When I spoke in First Minister's questions last week, Llywydd, I said that our hope was that we would have 100 GP practices vaccinating by the end of last week—we exceeded that; that we were to have 250 GP practices by the end of the month—we will exceed that; that we would have 35 mass vaccination centres—we're going to have 45. Not only is the Welsh NHS doing everything that we have asked of it, it is doing even more every day, and that means we can be confident that we will deliver vaccination to those top four priority groups, in line with our plan, by the middle of February. It's thanks to those enormous efforts, which I think everybody in this Senedd will want to support.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 2:05, 19 January 2021

Well, First Minister, if it's your policy to get the vaccines into people's arms as quickly as possible, why on earth did you actually say that you wanted to roll out the vaccines over a period of time? Because that is just a confusing message. And, Llywydd, whilst the Welsh Government may be happy with its go-slow approach, the people of Wales are far from happy; they want to see action and they want to see it now. In the meantime, people across Wales are being held prisoner to this virus. People can't meet up with their loved ones, children are without face-to-face learning and parents are struggling to manage the competing demands of working from home and home schooling their children. The Welsh Government's slow progress in vaccinating people just increases people's frustration and anger at a time when the Welsh Government should be providing them with hope and doing everything possible to expedite its vaccine delivery.

First Minister, will you tell us why Wales has been lagging behind the rest of the UK in rolling out the vaccine to those who actually need it most here in Wales? And can you tell us what urgent action the Welsh Government is taking to seriously accelerate its vaccine delivery to priority groups in Wales, so that those who need it the most can receive their vaccine as soon as possible?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:06, 19 January 2021

Well, Llywydd, the health spokesperson of the Conservative Party said earlier this afternoon that he wanted to see the vaccine programme succeed. It does not help to make it succeed when the leader of the opposition deliberately and knowingly runs down the efforts of those people who are working so hard to accelerate vaccine here in Wales by describing it all the time as a go-slow policy.

Let me just say again, because he said he might be confused; he needn't be confused if he'd listened to the first two answers I've given him. Let me give him the answer again and then he need not be confused again in the future: the policy of the Welsh Government is to vaccinate as many people in Wales as quickly and as safely as possible. That is how we have had 162,000 people vaccinated already here in Wales. That is why the pace of vaccination will accelerate again this week. The rate-limiting factor in Welsh vaccination is the one that the health Minister explained, in answering the emergency question. It is the rate of supply of the vaccine. We've had 25,000 doses of the Oxford vaccine available to us over each of the last two weeks. We expect to have 80,000 doses available to us this week, and we will use all of them. And we will use every drop of the Pfizer vaccine as well before the next delivery of that vaccine arrives here in Wales. That is our determination, that is what people in the NHS are working so hard to achieve, and I know that they would like to have the support of the leader of the opposition rather than his continual criticism of them.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:08, 19 January 2021

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru

First Minister, if the rate-limiting factor is supply—and the health Minister just said that that was true across all of the nations—what it then explains is the differential rate of vaccination in Wales compared to, as we've heard, the UK as a whole, England and Northern Ireland in particular. If it's the same rate of supply across these nations, then why are we seeing a differential rate, a gap between the rate of vaccination in Wales? We haven't really heard, to my mind, a coherent, clear answer to that question. So, can you give it to us now?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:09, 19 January 2021

Well, Llywydd, the race we are in in Wales is the race with the virus. The race is between infection and injection; it is not a race with other countries. We are doing our very best to vaccinate as many people as fast as we can, with the supply of vaccine that we have, and that is what we are focused on. The figures between different parts of the United Kingdom will vary over time, as they do with every other aspect of coronavirus. The figures that matter to people in Wales are the figures of vaccination that are going on here, and our determination and our confidence in the plan that we have, which is the same plan as in any other part of the United Kingdom, is to complete the vaccination of the top four priority groups by the middle of February. We are on course to do that, and that is where our efforts are focused.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:10, 19 January 2021

First Minister, you haven't addressed my question, and it's a reasonable question for me to put to you, and, indeed, it's a question that my own elderly parents ask me, because they're in the position—they haven't had a date at all; both of them in their 80s. My father, an 85 year old ex-miner, has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease; he in a clinically vulnerable group, and yet he has had no communication yet to explain to him when he's going to get a vaccination. We have family, like many people in Wales, across different parts of the UK; many of them have been vaccinated, and they have had a date for a vaccination. So, a reasonable question for me to put to you again, First Minister, is: what explains the gap? It's important for us to know, because if there's a problem there, then we can solve it. Is it the case that—? We heard the Minister referring to the fact that Wales has higher shares of population in some of the priority groups—absolutely. We've got higher numbers of people in the over 80s. We've got a significantly higher share of people in the over 65s. So, isn't there a case to return to the question of whether we should be getting a share that is greater than our population because of this higher level of need?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:11, 19 January 2021

Well, Llywydd, I discussed that very issue with the First Ministers of Scotland, Northern Ireland and with Michael Gove at the Cabinet Office in our meeting on Wednesday of last week. We explored it with the most senior civil servant who is responsible for securing and dispersing supplies of vaccines across the United Kingdom. The point about our age structure was recognised in that conversation, and actions are being taken to make sure that it is taken into account in the supplies of vaccine, which will ramp up here in Wales and across the whole of the United Kingdom.

The figures of what happens elsewhere in the United Kingdom and what happens in Wales will, as I say, change week by week. What we are focused on is making the fastest and most efficient use of every drop of vaccine that comes here in Wales. We've used the Oxford vaccine that's come to us over the last two weeks; we will use the 80,000 doses that we have this week, and accelerating numbers beyond. And we will use all the Pfizer vaccine that we have before there's another delivery of it here in Wales. And the figures that will matter most to people—and I absolutely understand that there are people who are still waiting to be contacted. Our programme sets out that we would offer the vaccine to everybody by the middle of February; inevitably, there are some people who will still be waiting. I absolutely understand that they will be anxious and waiting to be contacted. The figures that will matter to them are the figures of how the vaccine is being deployed here in Wales, and the figures that have been provided this afternoon, by the health Minister and by myself, demonstrate that we are on track to deliver what we promised, in line with what is happening across the whole of the United Kingdom.

Photo of Adam Price Adam Price Plaid Cymru 2:13, 19 January 2021

It's right, of course, for us not to be just parochial, if you like, and comparing ourselves to other nations in these islands, but comparing ourselves to some of the best in the world. We know, of course, by Sunday, Israel had vaccinated 20 per cent of its population—I think it's now up to 28 per cent. It was initially expected that their programme would also suffer a slow down with Pfizer doses running low, but the Israeli Government secured a commitment from the company to bring forward deliveries on the grounds that they would share statistical data, in return giving scientists a case study to which to analyse the impact of the vaccine roll-out. That means that they're on target to meet a complete vaccination of their citizens over 16 within two months. First Minister, would you commit to contacting Pfizer to explore avenues for Wales to reach a similar agreement, or failing this, would you make representations to the UK Prime Minister to pursue a similar path, so that we can make this lockdown that we're going through now the last lockdown?

Photo of Mark Drakeford Mark Drakeford Labour 2:14, 19 January 2021

Well, Llywydd, as the health Minister explained, we do have direct contact with suppliers of the vaccine, but that is not about the contract that is struck with them—that is done by the UK Government on behalf of all four nations. I'll raise the points the Member has made at my next meeting with the UK Government tomorrow, but the negotiations that they carry out on our behalf have succeeded in securing for the United Kingdom, and therefore for Wales, supplies of vaccine that mean that the United Kingdom, and Wales as part of it, is, as you heard the health Minister explain, at the leading edge of vaccination on the world stage. The confidence that we have in those supplies comes from our ability to pool our needs and our resources and to have that then dispersed across the United Kingdom in a way that reflects both our population and the structure of that population.