3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport: The Welsh Government Response to the South East Wales Transport Commission’s Final Recommendations

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:21 pm on 19 January 2021.

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Photo of Russell George Russell George Conservative 3:21, 19 January 2021

Can I thank the Deputy Minister for his statement today? And also my own thanks to Lord Burns and the commissioners for their recommendations also. And I should also like to thank Lord Burns and Peter McDonald from the commission secretariat for attending the EIS committee last week, which I thought was particularly helpful.

From my perspective, Deputy Minister, the volume of traffic in Wales is generally increasing year on year. I and my party welcome the recommendations set out in the commission's report; I'll put that on the table very clearly now as well. But I do believe that, of course, the recommendations are no substitute for an M4 relief road—to be clear on that also. It is my view that the recommendations, mainly, shouldn't be carried out in isolation; they should be carried out alongside the creation of an M4 relief road. 

In evidence last week, the committee heard from Lord Burns, and he referred to some—when he was asked—scepticism amongst stakeholders about whether any of the recommendations would see the light of day. Now, I understand why there would be that scepticism. Do you understand why there would be that scepticism, and have you had that scepticism presented to you also? And what would you say to those who have that sceptical view? 

In terms of the recommendations, you've set out in your statement today that the delivery unit will look at those in detail and come back to you in terms of priorities. That I understand clear enough, but perhaps you could set out yourself what you feel are the initial early recommendations that you think should be adopted and be worked on yourself, ahead of receiving that from the delivery unit. There was lots of mention about the delivery unit and also the steering group. I think you were quite clear on that, but I just would like you to be a bit clearer in terms of who you are charging to implement the recommendations. There is this talk of both groups; whose job will it be to liaise with the stakeholders that you've mentioned? If you could also tell us a little bit more about the governance of the delivery unit—I know you referred to the chair being appointed—a little bit more about the governance, the funding of that delivery unit and its remit—will they have a remit letter? Because, clearly, it looks like the delivery unit will be a body in place over the next five to 10 years. And also, perhaps, how you will take forward the recommendations on behavioural change in particular, alongside or in parallel with the infrastructure recommendations.

There's the Welsh Government's on home working of 30 per cent; clearly, there's been change in travelling patterns during 2020, so how do you feel that the commission has taken those into account in its work? The increase in home working during the pandemic, I don't think should be seen as an excuse for delay on putting these recommendations into practice, I'd hope you would agree with that, but I do agree with Lord Burns when he says that there is breathing space now because of the pandemic, because there isn't that pressure on the road, so it's about using that breathing space correctly, in the right way, so perhaps you could tell me if you agree with that perspective.

Increasing behavioural change is a must, and the recommendation with which I have the most concern is the parking levy that's mentioned. My concern would be, although this parking levy would be on employers, not employees, effectively, there'd be a knock-on effect that, in effect, employees would be paying for those charges themselves. I'd welcome further views on that.

And finally, in terms of the financial impacts, the First Minister previously indicated that the first call on the Welsh Government for that £1 billion would be for these kinds of improvements. A lot has happened since then, of course, and the First Minister also cited that the costs were a major factor in terms of the recommendations. The commission have said that the costs of the recommendations are going to be somewhere between £600 million and £800 million spend over 10 years. Do you think that represents good value for money? How does that take into account the other needs of the Welsh Government or a future Welsh Government in terms of dealing with the pandemic?