3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport: The Welsh Government Response to the South East Wales Transport Commission’s Final Recommendations

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:32 pm on 19 January 2021.

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Photo of Helen Mary Jones Helen Mary Jones Plaid Cymru 3:32, 19 January 2021

I'd like to thank the Deputy Minister for his statement. As Russell George said, it was very useful indeed to have Lord Burns attend the committee so we had an opportunity as committee members to explore some of the ideas with him directly. I want to offer the Deputy Minister Plaid Cymru's support for this approach, and to say that we are pleased that he has been able to accept the recommendations. I'm looking forward to studying the line-by-line response, because the Deputy Minister knows as well as I do that accepting in principle doesn't always mean that we can actually get it done. So, we'll need to look at that a little bit carefully I think, but very much welcome the approach. 

Can I just ask a little bit more about delivery of this? Now, the Deputy Minister is quite right when he talks about induced demand, and we know that, if this road had been built, it would have been filled up in a matter of a couple of years, whereas what we're talking about here is longer-term change. There will be challenges there. I think we would accept what the Deputy Minister has said about the need, when good alternatives are in place, for disincentives for people to carry on using private cars to come into play, though I am relieved to hear the Deputy Minister say that we need to start with the positive incentives by making public transport more accessible, making it feel safer, making it easier for people to use.

I'm concerned that one of the big challenges to delivery is going to be the situation of the non-devolved parts of the rail network. Now, this afternoon's conversation is not perhaps the place to have the conversation about the missed opportunity when Welsh Government could have asked for the full devolution and didn't, but, in the context of today's discussion, this does present some real challenges. The Deputy Minister is right to say that Wales has been short-changed massively in terms of capital spending by this UK Government. I think the First Minister was right when he told us earlier this afternoon that we can't trust the Tories. But, in terms of delivering this particular set of outcomes, I'd like to ask the Deputy Minister this afternoon how those initial discussions with UK Government that he and his officials have been having are progressing. It's early days to say, of course, but does he get the sense that they understand the importance, and indeed the urgency, of delivering for the people of south-east Wales, and, indeed, beyond, because, of course, that congestion in the south-east has an effect beyond the south-east itself? So, does he perceive that lack of power over rail infrastructure is going to be an issue in terms of delivering on this set of recommendations?

With regard to the shorter term work that he's talked about in terms of active travel and the bus network, is he confident that Welsh Government has got sufficient power to be able to ensure that this happens with regard to buses? Of course, with Newport Bus themselves, they are still controlled, as I understand it, by the local authority, so that will be relatively straightforward. But there are other bus services that go in and out of Newport, particularly those bus services that serve Valley communities—they're not all under direct local authority control. So, I wonder: does the Deputy Minister feel that the next Government may need to return to bus legislation, and may need to take that bus legislation perhaps further than was planned in the draft that we were looking at before COVID hit, to ensure that there are sufficient powers?

And the Deputy Minister did talk about governance in response to Russell George, and indeed mentioned that in his own statement. Has he given consideration as to how the UK Government will fit in to those governance mechanisms, as he begins to roll out the bigger infrastructure projects around rail? Because it seems to me that it's very important that there is some mechanism whereby, once agreements are reached, those agreements can be monitored. And does he see that as coming within the remit of the unit that he speaks about and the independent chair?

And finally, can he give us a sense this afternoon of when he thinks people in the Newport area will begin to see some of these changes? I'm a lot less sceptical than Russell George appears to be, and I think the intentions here are solid, and we've got good evidence from the Burns commission as to why these changes should be brought about. But I know that the Deputy Minister will understand the frustrations of people most directly affected, and indeed of the surrounding communities who get affected by the knock-on effects. So, can he give us some indication as to when he thinks people will begin to feel some changes on the ground as a result of this work, understanding, of course, that the bigger infrastructure works will take longer?