2. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on perinatal mental health in Wales? OQ56142

Perinatal services have been positioned, as you know, as an essential service during the pandemic. Community teams have worked hard to ensure that that support has remained accessible, including through digital and telephone-based support. We're continuing to monitor the evidence to inform our approach, for instance with the 'Babies in Lockdown' report and the Born in Wales study.

We know that the pandemic has meant unprecedented pressure, heightened anxiety, and a greater risk of mental health problems for new parents. We know too that all this is happening at a time that is absolutely critical—those first 1,000 days of a baby's life, which can influence their development throughout their lives. Before Christmas, this Senedd passed a motion, tabled by myself, Bethan Sayed, and Leanne Wood, calling for a focused effort to support new parents during the pandemic, and also calling for ring-fenced funding for perinatal mental health. While I welcome your assurance that you gave in the health committee this morning that you would look at ring-fenced funding, I think that needs to be done as a matter of urgency. Can I also ask what further update you can provide, particularly in terms of ensuring that health visiting support, and other services, are there? Because we can say as often as we like that these are designated essential services; in my experience, that is not the experience on the ground. Can I also ask if you'll agree to meet with the Maternal Mental Health Alliance in Wales, so that you can work in partnership with them to ensure that new parents do get the support they so desperately need?

Thanks very much, Lynne. Certainly, you'll be aware that we've refreshed our 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, and within that we have made sure that perinatal services are absolutely central to what we need to focus on. One of the key things we're trying to do is to make sure that we get all the health authorities to meet the standards that are set out by the Royal College of Psychiatrists—the quality standards that are set out there. Now, some authorities are further ahead than others in this space, and so what we need to do, and what I'll be looking at in response to your question today, is to see how far along some of these health boards are in terms of delivering on that. There will be an expectation that they will meet those service standards, and we will provide enough money to make sure that they can meet those standards. So, they'll be making their applications to us, effectively, and we will make sure that that money is there.

I guess, in some health boards, they may be able to reach those standards quicker than others, and they may want to release some of that money to, for example, give more support to eating disorders, or whatever else, if they have reached a certain standard. So, I think we can certainly look at—. I think what we've got to look at is outcomes, rather than money going in. That's my interest, as I informed the committee this morning—it's outcomes that are important, not the amount of money that goes in. If we're meeting those outcomes that are set out, then I don't think we'll need to put that ring fence in. But leave it with me, because I'm very anxious to look at that in more detail. You will be aware also that we've appointed a new clinical lead—Sharon Fernandez—and that's to help support those health boards to make sure that they reach those required standards that have been set out.

In terms of the visiting, I am aware that, in some areas—. You know, this can be a very lonely time. It's a very isolated time as a new parent. I'll never forget just waiting, desperately, for my husband to come home, to hand over the baby at the end of the day, because you're tearing your hair out. You do need that support, and lots of people don't have that support, which is why it's essential that we keep an eye on this space. That support is being given online, but if there is a medical reason why that needs to be face to face, then I think that is able to continue in this space. 

Minister, I concur with everything that's just been said by Lynne, and would support what she's said. I am very happy that the Welsh Government has classed this as essential, because it is critical care, the perinatal care. It's such an important time for the parents and for the children as well, as has already been outlined. Therefore, I welcome the extra money that's going towards mental health, and I'd ask too that a lot of it is pushed in this area particularly.

As you know, I've got a one-year-old myself. I'm lucky that he gets to see other children of his age in nursery twice a week, but a lot of children won't be able to see children of their age. It was a massive worry when we were in the proper lockdown, when nurseries closed too, that he didn't have that access to seeing other children, and obviously he couldn't hug anyone and see the people he would normally see. So, it is a worry about his development in that way. I wonder about the knock-on effects, and I wonder what the Government is doing in that regard.

But, also, for the parents—it really takes a village, not just parents, to raise a child, and as you just said, Eluned, you need that rest, you need to get some sleep, because some children don't sleep. My first didn't at all and it has a massive impact on your mental health to have that break. Has the Government looked into the possibility of maybe extending support bubbles for new parents in that regard, so maybe they see children or maybe they have that extra support themselves for their mental health issues? 

Can I start by saying, Laura, that you look amazing for someone with a one-year-old, I must say? I don't know you manage it. One of the things that we've tried to make sure is available is that childcare provision, because we recognise that that is important for so many people. Just in terms of support bubbles for new parents, obviously at alert level 4, we had to suspend the ability to form extended households, which meant that only single parents or single households were able to form support bubbles. But even for those who are not part of a support bubble, under our rules, parents of babies are allowed access to support from their families or close friends if they need to, and if there's no reasonable alternative. So, there is more space there perhaps than people recognise. But I must emphasise, having said this, that just because you can do it, it doesn't mean you should do it. I can't overstate the seriousness of the situation, and I think it is important that we ask everybody to think very carefully to protect their friends and families. 

My office held a survey throughout the autumn and winter of last year. We got 1,000 responses to one, and 300 to another most recently, asking parents about their experience of perinatal services. We've had many responses, telling us that 80 per cent of them feel anxious about the restrictions that still exist in maternity services, 68 per cent feel that they didn't receive support, despite experiencing mental health problems, and 90 per cent saying that their partner had no opportunity to discuss their mental health—fathers perhaps being forgotten in all of this, very often. 

What can you do to do more in this sphere to ensure that things can operate better? Would you agree to meet with me, along with some of the charities active in this area, to discuss our survey? A number of details have emerged in the survey that could help you as a Government to steer this, and to help mothers and fathers to move forward in a period, as Lynne Neagle and Laura Anne Jones said, that is very difficult even at the best of times, never mind giving birth during a pandemic?

I have been looking at the responses to the survey. I've been following that, and I must say I was surprised to see the figures quite so high in not seeing follow-up services, and that's something that worried me a great deal. That's why we are going to provide additional funding so that health boards can reach those standards that are expected. Within those standards, there is an understanding that it's not just mothers that need this help; fathers can also feel that they're being excluded, so they too need assistance. 

I haven't met with people on the front line in my new post on this issue of perinatal services. So, what I would suggest is that I bring people together. Lynne Neagle also asked me if I would meet with certain groups and individuals. Perhaps we can arrange one big meeting, and then I'd be very happy to hear from the front line about what the situation is. I'm keen not to just look at statistics, but to hear people's front-line experiences.