So, we move to item 5, the debate on the petition to legislate to prevent people from changing Welsh house names. I call on the Chair of the Petitions Committee—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Motion NDM7550 Janet Finch-Saunders

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes the petition 'P-05-1032 Legislate to prevent people from changing Welsh house names' which received 18,103 signatures.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. On behalf of the Petitions Committee, I am pleased to open this debate on a petition calling for steps to be taken to help prevent Welsh house names being changed and lost. This was submitted by Robin Aled Davies, having collected more than 18,000 signatures, a fact that I believe demonstrates how many people feel strongly about this issue, and about the protection of Welsh language and heritage more widely. Now, though the petition received signatures from across Wales—as well as further afield—I wanted to note the particularly strong support from the west and north-west of Wales, where this is perhaps seen as an especially important issue.

The Petitions Committee considered the petition in November last year, noting some of the previous efforts that have been made to provide protection to Welsh place names in recent years. Those have included a Member's Bill proposal put forward by Dr Dai Lloyd MS in 2017 and an inquiry by the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee into the historic environment, also in 2017. Now, Members who were directly involved in those pieces of work may wish to say more about them, though the Petitions Committee has noted that this inquiry led to a recommendation that the Government should keep the issue under review and introduce further protection if the current approach does not prove effective. I'm also aware that the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee intends to follow this issue up as part of its legacy work.

Now, of course, with the end of this Senedd term—it is now rapidly approaching, and the Petitions Committee recognises that there is simply not sufficient time remaining to directly enact the petition's call to introduce new legislation before that time. However, we did not feel that fact should prevent a debate on the issue and I hope the sources of protection that could be provided to historic names, both now and in the longer term. There are roles for a range of bodies in providing those protections, including the Welsh Government, local authorities and Cadw. The approach needed will also depend upon the type of name being considered.

Now, this petition itself is very specific, directly concerning only individual house names. However, it is part of a wider issue, including the names of settlements and other larger places, natural features, farms and large buildings, down to individual properties. At the largest scale, measures such as the Welsh language standards do already provide a degree of protection for our cities, towns and villages, with duties on local authorities, for example, in relation to signage. Names of historic places have also been maintained in a register since 2017, with statutory guidance in place for public bodies.

Then, at the smallest scale, protecting house names is likely to be more difficult in practice, and the Minister has pointed out some of those difficulties in her written response to our Petitions Committee. Where a property is only known by its name, owners must apply to their local authority to change it. Now, I'm aware that some authorities provide guidance to actually encourage owners to use Welsh names on their properties, though this is not to be considered mandatory. In addition, where a property is known primarily by a number, owners may be able to add or change a name without requiring approval. And, for example, an owner can operate a business from a property, such as a farm, under a different name. So, this is by no means a simple issue, and, as the petition does help to demonstrate, it is one that prompts strong feelings and reactions. This should be expected, given the importance that names can have in reinforcing who we are and the history of the communities that we live in and we wish to identify with. I hope that this debate can help us today to take stock of the situation and to consider what more could be done to protect traditional or historic names. Diolch yn fawr.

Can I thank, first of all, Janet Finch-Saunders as Chair of the Petitions Committee, and also the petitioner and the 18,000-plus people who signed the petition? As alluded, this is an issue close to my heart. That's why I presented a Bill to the Assembly—the Senedd now—in 2017, seeking to protect historic place names in Wales. As part of that Bill, I also wanted to look at protecting historical house names.

House names, the names of farms and places more generally are very important for a nation's memory and history. Often, they have a direct link to the history and geography of the area or a link with famous names, events such as battles for our independence as a nation, and important elements in Welsh history, with links to ancient traditions, historical industry and the myths and legends of our lands.

We know that, across Wales, names of historic farmhouses and homes are being lost. Losing these names means that we are losing part of our local and national heritage. It was disappointing that the Government in 2017 voted against the principle of developing legislation in this area, and I still believe that there is more that the Welsh Government can do to protect these names—mere guidance does not do it. There is currently no legal protection for house names in Wales. It is clear that there are a range of ways in which the Government could do that, and we know that there are organisations and academics who support further Government intervention in this area. A number of countries worldwide have identified that historical place names are important and have developed legislation in order to protect such names. So, there is certainly potential there to learn from others. There may be scope, for example, to create a requirement for an individual to seek legal consent from an authority when seeking to change the name of a house or any other place. This authority might be the local planning authority, as is the case now with listed building consent. Currently, if a householder wants to change the name of their house, they must apply to their local authority department responsible for street naming and numbering. However, the local authority doesn't generally have any powers to reject a name change, apart from instances where there may be duplication of the name locally.

In cases of applications for changes to property names, current Welsh Government guidance sets out that local authorities are expected to check the national list of historic place names, mentioned by Janet, when processing such applications. If a historic name appears on that list, or if an officer is aware of one from another source, the applicant should be encouraged to retain that name. Unfortunately, as I have argued on a number of occasions, encouragement doesn't guarantee the protection of historical house or place names. Legislation does, which is why the Welsh Government should explore this further. Diolch yn fawr.

The Minister for Mental Health, Wellbeing and Welsh Language to contribute to the debate—Eluned Morgan.

Thank you very much, and thank you for the opportunity to discuss this important issue. The fact that the petition has attracted so much support does demonstrate that there are very strong feelings about this issue. And I have to admit that this is an issue that I am concerned about, but there are practical problems that we need to look at.

The fact is that people have a right to name their homes, for better or for worse. Anyone can put a plaque on their home without informing the local authority, if that home has a street number. But I do think that naming a house against the will of the local populace can feel like actually cutting that tie between ourselves and our community. I did respond to this petition through this committee, which highlighted the fact that we had already taken action in terms of cities, towns and villages, that we'd asked the Welsh Language Commissioner to provide advice to individuals and organisations on the standardised forms of place names in Wales. And I think that those standards have done a good job. The fact that we are seeing these names now does mean that we have seen a shift in this area.

I do feel that our statutory guidance does require particular public authorities to consider a list of historic place names in their naming functions. That is a statutory issue and that is already in place, and a local authority has to recognise the importance of historical place names in naming streets and house numbers. And if a local authority has an application for a historical place name to be changed, then that council should encourage the applicant to reconsider. And that's where I see Dai's point: can we go further? Can we say that—rather than asking nicely that individuals change their minds, can we go further and can we legislate and tighten the guidance that is in place? So, I must admit to having a great deal of sympathy with that view, and I would be more than happy to speak to committee members and Dai, to see exactly what we can do to tighten things up, so that we don't see more of this happening. One example that we've seen cited—. I think it's worth saying that there's nothing preventing the owner of a property with a historical name giving an additional name to that property—a business name, for example. So, there's one example that's angered a lot of people: Happy Donkey Hill. That's the new name, but the farm is still called Faerdre Fach, and the name hasn't officially changed, but there is a new plaque on the wall for the business. So, we do just have to be aware that there are practical problems in this area, but I'm quite happy to work to see if it's possible for us to tighten up in this area.

But I think it's worth saying that the evidence we've seen shows that, in some counties, they’re receiving more applications to put Welsh names on houses than vice versa. For example, in Ceredigion, where, fair play, they really have made an effort in this area, they've received only one application to change the name of a house from Welsh to English, although they have had 10 requests to change from English to Welsh. Therefore, something is working in Ceredigion, and perhaps it's worth us looking to see whether there are things that other people could learn from there.

But I also think that local action—community pressure—can help us in this area. If you look at what happened, for example, at Plas Glynllifon: they tried to change the name there to Wynnborn Mansion, but the community rose up and stopped that from happening. Therefore, it is possible for the community to stop these things from happening.

However, thank you very much to Janet. I don't think that this is just something to do with houses. I want to see where we can go further, for example, lakes—that is something that we have to look at next. And also, we have helped, for example, by providing funding to develop an app that shows the names of mountains in north-east Wales. So, there are things we can do, but I'm happy to see whether it's possible for us to do something on a statutory basis as well. But, I have to say, I'm not sure if it's possible, but I'm more than happy to see if we can move further in this area.

The Chair of the committee to reply to the debate—Janet Finch-Saunders.

Thank you, Minister, for your response, and to Dai Lloyd, as a Member, for your contributions today. In concluding this debate, I also wish to thank the petitioner, Robin Aled Davies, for bringing this petition forward, and to all 18,000 people who signed this, and who themselves have engaged with the petitions process within our Senedd. I do hope that the points raised today will contribute to future decision making. The Petitions Committee will return to consider the petition at a future meeting, when we do hope to receive further reflections from the petitioner and anyone else who has followed the petition or today's proceedings. Diolch yn fawr.

The proposal is to note the petition. Does any Member object? I don't see or hear an objection, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.