Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

2. Questions to the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition (in respect of his European Transition responsibilities) – in the Senedd at 2:44 pm on 27 January 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:44, 27 January 2021

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Dai Lloyd. 

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd, and good afternoon, Minister.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru

It was good to see a written statement from you, Minister, last week, informing Members that you'd issued formal proceedings in the administrative courts seeking permission for a judicial review to the UK internal market Act. Now, Plaid Cymru supports this endeavour. As we've stated before many times, the Act undermines Welsh democracy and drives a coach and horses through the devolution settlement. I hope that the Minister will keep Members continuously informed over the developing situation with regard to this legal action. In the meantime, however, could the Minister update us on whether or not he has discussed this legal action with counterparts in the other devolved administrations? Could he perhaps outline to us what efforts are being made to include the Scottish Government and Northern Ireland Executive, as supporters of this legal action, which, as I'm sure he would agree with me, will undoubtedly bolster the credibility of the case in favour of a judicial review into this latest power grab?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:45, 27 January 2021

Certainly. Well, the Member will obviously understand that I would not wish to disclose the detail of conversations between law officers in different parts of the UK. However, I can obviously say that he will perhaps have noted from the pleadings that we have acknowledged that both the law officers of Scotland and Northern Ireland are interested parties in the sense of having an interest in the outcome. The Scottish Government, as he may also have seen, has issued more than one statement of support for the course of action that we are taking as a Government. We are now at a stage where the initial application will be for the court to decide whether we have leave to bring a judicial review before an actual hearing takes place. And I think if, as we hope, the court does grant us leave to take the action forward, then I think it's at that point that the decision of other devolved Governments would crystallise about their relationship to the legal proceedings.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 2:46, 27 January 2021

Thank you for that, Minister. Moving on, buried deep within the UK-EU trade and co-operation agreement is an article that states that the European Parliament and UK Parliament,

'may establish a Parliamentary Partnership Assembly' consisting of MPs and MEPs. My understanding is that there is already talk within the UK and European Parliaments as to how to get this moving, but nothing's been formalised yet. As we know, the UK-EU agreement covers many areas of policy that are in fact devolved. Does the Minister agree with me, therefore, that we cannot just accept that only MPs from Westminster would be allowed to be represented on such a committee, and may I ask that, given that the establishment of this partnership committee has yet to be formalised, whether the Welsh Government, if they haven't already, could make representations and work with others to ensure that parliamentarians from across the devolved administrations are represented on this committee?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:47, 27 January 2021

Dai Lloyd raises a very important point in that question. The agreement makes a number of provisions in relation to the future governance of the relationship. Generally speaking, apart from, I think, in one context, the devolved institutions aren't expressly included in that. And one of the points that I've made already myself to UK Ministers relates to making sure that Wales has that role in the governance structures, going forward, which reflects exactly the point about the devolved nature of many of the areas under discussion through those governance frameworks. We're developing what we would regard as a detailed ask in relation to that, but the principle point has already been made: that Wales needs to be properly represented in that set of structures in the way that, when we were part of the European Union, the Council of Ministers' arrangements made provision for that sort of engagement.

Photo of David Lloyd David Lloyd Plaid Cymru 2:48, 27 January 2021

Thank you. Finally, I raised the issue of the UK shared prosperity fund with you, Minister, back in December and how this will impact the Welsh Government's ability to implement their own framework for regional investment in Wales. You stated, in response to my question, Minister, that,

'the UK Government ought to engage with us about how we can, even at this late hour, make sure that the people in Wales have the promises they were made kept, both with regard to how the funds are spent, but also crucially what those funds are.'

Last week, the UK Government announced that they intended to plough ahead and bypass the devolved administrations and replace European structural funds with a centrally controlled fund in Whitehall. Where does this leave, therefore, the Welsh Government's own framework for regional investment, given that you yourself have said that the delivery of this framework is dependent on positive engagement with the UK Government—your words. Are these plans now dead in the water?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:49, 27 January 2021

They are not dead in the water; they are the fruit of very considerable joint working with the private sector, public sector, third sector, universities, and so on, right across Wales, and they remain the Welsh Government's ambition for supporting regional investment in Wales through the shared prosperity fund and, indeed, in any other way. We are working with stakeholders to understand, obviously, what is a shifting landscape in Westminster in relation to this. What I would say to the Member is that we have not had the close discussions we would have expected to have at this stage, even, as it were, at this late stage, with the relevant Whitehall department. I think there has been a woeful lack of ministerial engagement with us around that. My understanding is that there has been a delay in the piloting—in the prospectus for the pilots—which won't now, obviously, be happening in January, and I think may not even happen in February. I do want to reiterate that the framework provides an approach for the future that has a broad base of support in Wales, which the UK Government would, I think, do well to engage, because that represents what businesses, local government and, as I say, other public bodies across Wales want to see as the future of regional funding in Wales. We have a plan. It's a plan that has been consulted on and co-designed and co-developed, and that is the framework that I think best represents the way for the shared prosperity fund to be put to work, and that should be done in partnership with us, rather than attempting to circumvent the Welsh Government.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:51, 27 January 2021

(Translated)

The Conservative spokesperson, Janet-Finch Saunders.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. To my delight, the UK Government has announced that seafood exporters across the UK will now receive Government funding of up to £23 million. That funding is to support businesses that have been most adversely affected by the coronavirus pandemic and the challenges of adjusting to new requirements for exporting. So, I hope, Counsel General, you will join with me in welcoming the action taken by the UK Government to support our Welsh fisheries. In fact, alongside money, the UK Government is, for example, providing clear guidance on the required IT forms, working closely with the individual businesses to help them get used to the new procedures required, and they are co-operating with French authorities and the EU Commission to ensure that minor administrative issues associated with export health certificates have not prevented goods from entering the market. Now, contrast this with the Welsh Government approach. The Minister, Ken Skates MS, wrote to me on 22 January, noting that the Welsh Government are continuing to monitor the difficult market situation for the Welsh seafood industry and what other options there might be for supporting the sector. So, will you advise, please, what steps you will be taking, through your capacity as the Minister for European transition, to provide support for the Welsh fisheries sector in addition to what the UK Government is already offering?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:53, 27 January 2021

Can I first welcome Janet Finch-Saunders to her new responsibilities? What I want to say at the start is that we obviously welcome the availability of this sum of money. It isn't a fund that has been co-designed, as it ought to have been, with the devolved Governments, and the detail on eligibility and roll-out remain, I think, at this point very vague, so we are working and hope to work with the UK Government to understand that better. What I should say, though, is that the challenge that the fisheries sector is under is entirely the responsibility of the UK Government in relation to the decisions it has taken as a matter of political choice in the negotiations with the European Union. We as a Government were fearful that this would come to pass, and hence our call for the UK Government to prioritise smooth access to markets, which they have failed to do. Many people prioritise their Ruritanian sense of sovereignty above the livelihoods of fishers and others, and those people will have to account to those sectors for having taken that view, and I include the Member in that. Fishers deal with products that are very perishable, and I suspect that the political reputations of those who have been complicit in the deal, which has undermined the well-being of the fishing sector, will find their own political positions perishable as well, in due course.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 2:54, 27 January 2021

Thank you. One example of action you could take is to encourage the Welsh Government to review the exclusion of crew members employed on a share-of-catch basis from the ERF sector-specific grant. Now, it will come of no surprise to you that I am again pleased that the Prime Minister's trade deal does allow UK goods and components to be sold without tariffs and without quotas in the EU market. However, I do acknowledge that the Farmers Union of Wales have raised concerns about the impact of trade friction on the agriculture sector. Now, during the Joint Ministerial Committee (EU Negotiations) on the trade and co-operation agreement on Tuesday 29 December, you called for the UK Government to put in place new support measures for the economy to help businesses through the transition. And the UK Government is now taking that action. I'm aware that farming Minister Victoria Prentis has been undertaking discussions with the French, the Irish and the Dutch, so will you clarify what further steps you will take to assist the agriculture sector with mitigating trade friction?

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:55, 27 January 2021

Well, we continue to work with the agriculture sector and, indeed, every other to understand the new barriers to trade that the UK Government's political choices have imposed upon them. I think it's important for the Member, in acknowledging the existence of a zero-tariff, zero-quota deal, to be quite clear sighted about the fact that the complexity in the trading relationship between our exporters and the European Union is vastly greater than it was on 31 December, and that will impose significant costs that those businesses are now wrestling with. We will do all that we can to support businesses in Wales in all sectors to continue exporting and to understand the new red tape that the Boris Johnson agreement has imposed upon them. But let us be clear that the root cause of that is the deal, and no amount of UK Government action or Welsh Government action can change, unfortunately, the fundamentals of that new relationship, which impose new barriers.

Photo of Janet Finch-Saunders Janet Finch-Saunders Conservative 2:56, 27 January 2021

Thank you, but again, my questions, really, are trying to ascertain what you are actually doing, rather than saying, 'Oh, this is for the UK Government' or, 'It's for those who wanted Brexit'. I'm trying to establish what you are doing in your capacity. Now, I appreciate that the Welsh Government has urged all hauliers and freight companies that transport goods from Welsh ports to Ireland to familiarise themselves with the process. In fact, there is some hope that the pressure of paperwork will ease with practice and familiarity, and, hopefully, in the short term.

Now, with regard to sailings from Wales to the EU, you will be aware of concerns that there could be a shift away from Holyhead, particularly in terms of weekend and off-peak traffic. Now, Wales office Minister, David T.C. Davies, has highlighted that there are issues that could be some teething problems, and I am very aware that our Secretary of State for Wales, Simon Hart MP, is keeping a very wary eye on this matter. So, I hope that this situation is only a temporary dip, especially as the fact remains that Welsh ports are the quickest and most efficient route between Ireland and the UK and then onward to the EU. So, what steps, please, will you commit to taking to promote the benefit to EU businesses of continuing to use our Welsh ports? You have a role to play in this, Counsel General, and I'm asking you not only to step up to the plate, but actually to tell the Senedd exactly what you are doing. Diolch.

Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 2:58, 27 January 2021

I'd be glad to take up Janet Finch-Saunders's invitation, and, forgive me, I was assuming that she was aware of the contents of the end of transition action plan, which stipulates in quite close detail everything that we're doing. But, anyway, I'll refer her to the contents of that for detail.

On the specific point that she makes, I myself found it rather offensive to describe these as 'teething troubles', actually; these are consequences of a freely negotiated agreement that were foreseeable and, indeed, foreseen. So, it is incumbent on governments to support port operators and freight companies and hauliers as well. We are doing that, as a Welsh Government. We're working with the UK Government and with the Irish Government, in fact. We've managed to ensure that the turnarounds at Holyhead, for example, have reduced from around 20 per cent of vehicles to something in the order of 5, 6 or 7 per cent—it varies, obviously. We've participated and led on detailed webinars with hauliers and freight companies, with many people coming on board to understand the new barriers that they face. We work closely with the ports, closely with HMRC and closely with the Irish Government in relation to this. What I want to see and what the Welsh Government wants to see is the land bridge protected. It is the fastest route, in ordinary circumstances, and it's certainly more effective and efficient, and we want to make sure that hauliers recognise that and support it. What we do not accept is that these can be dismissed as teething troubles, as UK Government Ministers have done. We think it requires a proactive approach of working together to solve the problem and explain to hauliers, and that is a much better approach than simply brushing them off as teething problems.